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Northwestern; how much debt is it worth?


Replies to: Northwestern; how much debt is it worth?

  • PublisherPublisher Registered User Posts: 7,457 Senior Member
    edited May 21
    Before venturing off to Northwestern University, examine the course offerings in the Kellogg Certificate Programs available to Northwestern University undergraduates. If you qualify & can handle the work, then Northwestern is almost certain to result in placement in IB, a major consulting firm or anything related that is of interest to you.

    I can recommend either option--Northwestern or remaining at Kelley. But you need to be fully informed about Northwestern University academic demands & opportunities before deciding.

    P.S. The caliber of student is quite different between your two final options. If the Kellogg Certificate Programs excite you, then NU may be a great option for you; but if these programs appear to be beyond your comfort / confidence level, then Kelley with no debt may be the better option. I cannot over emphasize the difference in the quality of students--and competition--at the two schools.
  • evergreen5evergreen5 Registered User Posts: 1,416 Senior Member
    Just throwing out a random tidbit that needs verification: I read someplace that for Wall St placement from Kelley, it is very important to be in the Workshop, and accordingly if a student weren't in the Workshop, looking elsewhere may make sense.
  • AQArgoAQArgo Registered User Posts: 58 Junior Member
    @Publisher To be completely honest, I have no indication of whether or not I can handle the work. I was able to quite easily obtain a 4.0 GPA at Kelley, despite a good amount of weed out classes they use, but it's hard to compare two sides of the table when you have only sat on one. I know NU is extremely demanding with their quarter classes, which excites me, and I'd like to think I will be able to maintain a high GPA, but obviously I cannot predict that until I've gotten a taste of the academics.

    I understand the difference in the student body, and that is one of the many reasons I am compelled to make the switch.
  • AQArgoAQArgo Registered User Posts: 58 Junior Member
    @evergreen5 You are correct. IB placement is nearly nonexistent outside of Kelley IBW, so while Kelley provides financial comfort, the job placement can be shaky in great IB opportunities.
  • PublisherPublisher Registered User Posts: 7,457 Senior Member
    edited May 21
    OP: You will be able to handle the work as an econ major--especially since you have already completed the weed out classes elsewhere.

    I just encourage you to look at the Kellogg Certificate offerings for undergraduates. One is for those targeting IB & the other, if I recall correctly, for MC. Also, there are some specialized offerings for engineering majors desiring exposure to business courses or a math & science oriented intense experience. Lots of very small classes.

    MC & IB recruit brainpower & work ethic--especially MBB for management consulting. IB has plenty who get there based on pedigree.

    But there are 2 year rotational positions available to finance majors at major corporations designed to groom upper level management candidates. High GPA is the primary factor in order to receive consideration for an interview. As I noted above, the guaranteed pay package without relocation is about $90,000 for those straight out of college.
  • PublisherPublisher Registered User Posts: 7,457 Senior Member
    edited May 21
    The Kellogg Certificate Programs are : Financial Economics Certificate & Managerial Analytics Certificate. (MMSS Mathematical methods in the Social Sciences & another program which I cannot recall are different from the Kellogg Certificates.)

    Managerial Analytics Certificate prerequisites are : Calculus & Linear Algebra; Probability; Econometrics / Statistics; Microeconomics; and Optimization. (Almost identical to prerequisites for the Financial Economics Certificate.)

    The four courses required to earn the certificate are: Principles of Finance; Operations & Supply Chain Strategy; Topics in Managerial Analytics: Analytics for Strategy; and Competition Strategy & Industrial Structure.

    The four required courses for the Financial Economics Certificate are: Principles of Finance; Investments: Derivatives; and Topics in Financial Economics: Derivatives II. (One of the profs. wrote the text on Derivatives. Has a PhD from MIT.)

    The professors have PhDs from Stanford (2), MIT (2), Penn-Wharton (2) & one has a PhD in Economics from Duke.

    Class sizes are very small (maybe 4 students). Employment outcomes are outstanding.
  • AQArgoAQArgo Registered User Posts: 58 Junior Member
    @Publisher Good lord. That's sounds absolutely amazing, but obviously at the same time, intimidating and highly intensive. Do you mind I ask where you got this information from? I'd love to look more into it.
  • PublisherPublisher Registered User Posts: 7,457 Senior Member
    I just googled "Northwestern University Kellogg Certificate programs". At least I think that that is what I googled. I have been reading the IU-Kelley website for the past hour.
  • PrtzDCPrtzDC Registered User Posts: 12 New Member
    OP: I guess NU undergrad could open up more opportunities for summer internships, high profile jobs upon graduation, elite MBA school and ultimately a rewarding career. You seems to have the ambition. Don't forget that networking is key in almost any career, more than your academic pedigree. Many of my IB colleagues didn't go to Ivy/top 20 undergrads.

    FYI, I dont have an MBA degree. I actually graduated as a biomedical engineering major. Landed a job with a top MC firm. Was lucky to be placed in the high tech practice. Was recruited into IB by my best friend from HS given my MC background in high tech. Still heavily leverage my industry contacts I friended during my 5 year MC stint in my IB career.
  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan Registered User Posts: 12,682 Senior Member
    edited May 24
    My take:

    NU has an edge for placement in to consulting over Kelley.

    IB Workshop at Kelley places as well in to IB as NU does. No extra ROI benefit from transferring to NU if you are aiming for IB.
    1. However, you may think the extra $50K to essentially feel better of yourself, the challenge, the experience, and personal development is worth it.
    2. $50K is also a manageable debt.
    3. On the other hand, I think kids who want to enter IB are slightly loony.

    Disclaimer: NU grad with experience on the Street.

    When do Kelley students apply and know whether they got in to the IB Workshop or not?
  • itsgettingreal17itsgettingreal17 Registered User Posts: 3,786 Senior Member
    edited May 24
    Just to inject a little reality into this discussion, MC and IB average tenure is 2 years. And getting one of those positions is very competitive from even the most elite schools. What if OP doesn’t get an offer? What if OP gets an offer and hates it after a year or 2 (the lifestyle sucks)? $50k in loans based on a job/career that is far from a foregone conclusion is a significant risk I would not recommend. Also $80k in NY is let alone with $50k in debt.
  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan Registered User Posts: 12,682 Senior Member
    @itsgettingreal17, MC sets up well for other jobs. IB sets up OK. It's not as if the majority of IB/MC analysts who wash out after a couple years are pan-handling on the streets. Many go get an MBA.

    And if the OP doesn't get a IB/MC offer, he gets another job. For a smart driven hard-working kid, $50K debt won't be too much to handle. Mind you, I also think that a smart driven hard-working kid would do fine graduating from Kelley as well. But as I mentioned in my post, all that other stuff (the pride, the peers, the challenge, the experience, the personal and educational development) can't be quantified by ROI.

    BTW, IB bonuses are typically double/triple base. MC bonuses are less lucrative (but you don't have to be based in NYC for MC either).
  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan Registered User Posts: 12,682 Senior Member
    ^ Actually, even for IB, you don't have to be based in NYC. Coming out of either NU or Kelley, there's a decent chance that you will end up in Chicago instead of NYC even for IB. Probably a bit lower total comp but much lower COL.
  • itsgettingreal17itsgettingreal17 Registered User Posts: 3,786 Senior Member
    @Publisher Unless you’re going to pay the OP’s $50k (before interest) if IB or MC doesn’t work out, all that pride, etc etc is not worth the debt.
  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan Registered User Posts: 12,682 Senior Member
    @itsgettingreal17, my student loans probably totaled about $50K in today's dollars when I graduated from NU. Knocked it all off well before their 10Y term working 40 hour/week jobs (so nothing fancy like IB or MC).

    And again, it's not as if someone like the OP, if he fails to get in to IB/MC, will be earning minimum wage at McD's.

    For someone smart, hard-working, and interested in making money (like the OP seems to be), $50K just isn't a big burden.
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