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Oberlin ex-Pres. "Oberlin needs an intervention. STOP. Pay up, apologize to the Gibsons, reflect.."

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Replies to: Oberlin ex-Pres. "Oberlin needs an intervention. STOP. Pay up, apologize to the Gibsons, reflect.."

  • thibaultthibault 117 replies4 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    I mean, this is the definition of decadence: "students throwing food on the floor and stomping on it sounds like nursery school.... you'd expect the people in charge of the nursery school to stop that sort of behavior. ..."
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  • shuttlebusshuttlebus 476 replies1 threadsRegistered User Member
    After reading Oberlin's internal emails, the comments after the trial by Oberlin's president are disgusting. Here is a snippet of her interview with CBS News:
    "Even though the jury ruled against the school, Ambar said she thought the entire controversy was "absolutely" hurtful to the Gibsons.
    "There's no doubt that the college felt bad about what was happening and tried to resolve it. And I think that's one of the lessons learned that the work that we need to do in our community is to try to build the type of relationship that means maybe these type of incidents won't happen."

    Yeah, those emails certainly indicated how bad the college felt about what was happening. smh
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  • JBStillFlyingJBStillFlying 6618 replies22 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    To describe your multi-million-dollar judgement as "being hurtful" and "feeling bad" is to remain in the nursery school bubble. That's baby talk, Ms. Ambar.

    She's a lawyer, right? What gives?
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  • thibaultthibault 117 replies4 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    She's resorting to all kinds of psychotherapeutic babble in order to try to redirect attention away from Oberlin's nasty, malicious, defamatory and tortious behavior.

    Listen to this astonishing interview with CBS News in which Ambar uses baby talk and other babble to blatantly lie about the college's role:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oberlin-college-president-defamation-lawsuit-verdict-gibsons-bakery-44-million-libel/
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  • thibaultthibault 117 replies4 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    A long post, but necessary.

    Ambar's blatant lies and through-the-looking-glass denials of reality are so disgusting that they deserve to be demolished with specific evidence presented at trial.

    That voluminous body of evidence in the form of many emails and text messages that Oberlin College high-level staff sent each other - and even to the president of Oberlin at that time, Marvin Krislov - shows beyond a doubt that not just Oberlin students but Oberlin's LEADERSHIP behaved with actual malice toward the Gibsons.

    This malice took the form of an urgent desire, which these Oberlin leaders acted upon, to try to bully and punish the Gibsons for daring to resist Oberlin College employees' and students' false charges of racism.

    Everyone should refer to that detailed, precise and superbly well-organized recitation of the facts by the Gibsons' attorneys' which Shuttlebus linked to, above - for easy reference, here's the link again: https://www.lawlion.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/FAQs-re-Gibsons-Bakery-v.-Oberlin-College.pdf.

    Ambar's Big Lie #1. "There was one administrator there who was representing the institution ... the dean of students ... was there to ensure that the protest was lawful and was safe, and was saying to students 'you can't stand there, you can't stand there.'"
    Ambar's Big Lie #2. "There's no doubt that the college felt bad about what was happening and tried to resolve it."

    FACT: Evidence presented at trial shows clearly that Oberlin staff were anything but neutral. As one of many examples of actual malicious intent and active behavior to stir up the students against the Gibsons. Here's an iMessage from Dean of Students Raimondo - it's Exhibit 25, on p. 58 of the "FAQs" .pdf linked above:
    From: From: + Meredith Raimondo
    Timestamp: 11/10/2016 07:38 (UTC-5)
    Source App: iMessage: +
    Body : A staff group will meet at 930 in Wilder 105 to talk about how to support
    students who are protesting.

    FACT: Exhibit 100 from the trial (see p. 46 of the FAQs document) shows that OC bullied the Gibsons and tried to destroy their business. Multiple emails and text messages sent by Raimondo, VP of Communications Ben Jones and his high-level employee, Tita Reed, show definitively that Oberlin leadership sought to hurt the Gibson's financially by, in President Krislov's words, "cut[ting] off Obie dollars" from the Gibson's business.

    FACT: Exhibit 145 (p.15 of the FAQ): shows that Tita Reed circulated the thought of contractually linking the dropping of charges against the three students arrested on November 9, 2016 in exchange for a resumption of business with Gibson’s Bakery: "once charges are dropped [by the Gibsons], orders [by Oberlin, of Gibson products] will resume."

    FACT: Exhibit 134, p. 48 shows VP of Communications Ben Jones' vulgar insults and heated threats against the Gibsons: "We should just give all business to Leo at IGA. Better donuts anyway. And all these idiots complaining about the college hurting a "small local business" are conveniently leaving out their massive (relative to the town. conglomerate and price gouging on rents and parking and the predatory behavior towards most other local
    business. F--- 'em."

    For reference, you can find specific evidence to specific questions in the following pages of the FAQ:
    1. Did Oberlin College and Dean Raimondo act with actual malice? .............3
    2. What led the jury to conclude that Oberlin College and Dean Raimondo acted with
    actual malice? ....................... 4
    3. Did Oberlin College interfere with a 100-year business relationship without
    justification and support, by its words or actions, a boycott against Gibson’s Bakery? ........................ 8
    4. Did the Oberlin College administration fail to act as the adult in the room and instead succumb to the threat of students throwing nursery-school like temper tantrums in the school dining halls? ...........................11
    5. Did Oberlin College insist that its students were above the law and entitled to special treatment? ......................................... 13
    6. Did the College recklessly disregard the truth that the Gibsons do not have a history
    of racial profiling or racial discrimination? .......................................17
    7. Did Oberlin College take any action or make any efforts to correct the false narrative
    calling the Gibsons racists?...............................................................................................22
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  • thibaultthibault 117 replies4 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    pp. 4 and 5 of the FAQ document show a summary of those vulgar, nasty, expletive-filled, malicious messages showing clear intent to punish the Gibsons and harm their business which were introduced as evidence at trial. They are Exhibits 63, 86, 91, 100, 101, 134 (two separate malicious messages), 145, 206, 211, 248, 322.

    Exhibit #211 is the most damning of all. After OC Professor Roger Copeland writes a letter to the editor expressing support for the Gibsons, VP Ben Jones texts Dean of Students Meredith Raimondo: "F---ING ROGER COPELAND".

    Raimondo responds, "F--- him. I'd say unleash the students..."
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  • shuttlebusshuttlebus 476 replies1 threadsRegistered User Member
    edited July 26
    Many of those "idiots" were alum writing to express their concern. An excerpt from an email from an alum submitted as evidence at trial:


    To treat Mr. Gibson or his business as racist because of what took place here seems to us completely inappropriate in multiple ways. First ,it ignores the fact that Gibson's is a local business that has, for decades, responded to minor incidents like this in ways that acknowledge the youthfulness of the September to May population, working with the college and the police to seek restitution in ways that do not destroy careers. Second, it ignores the fact that Oberlin is a college that models civil discourse based on on facts and principles, even when those facts and principles stand in opposition to political correctness.

    We urge you and other members of the Oberlin community not only to decline to politicize this incident, but also to step up to use this as a learning and healing opportunity."
    edited July 26
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  • bearpantherbearpanther 674 replies12 threadsRegistered User Member
    Just finished reading the FAQ, and all I can say is wow. Very apparent to me how the jury arrived at its verdict with all the evidence laid out like that.
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  • MidwestmomofboysMidwestmomofboys 4006 replies27 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    edited July 26
    I share the head-shaking response to Oberlin's post-judgment communications, framing this as an issue of student speech rather than in terms of the administration being found liable for defamation. At the same time, the fact that the Chair of the Board works for Soros Fund Management means that he is likely a financially successful individual with experience with high level investment and other complex analysis -- your typical Board Chair. Suggesting that he is somehow involved in some left wing conspiracy because some posters find George Soros' individual politics distasteful is just unnecessary.

    edited to add, as I just read the bio of the Board Chair in the earlier post -- Goldman, Ph.D. in Econ from Columbia, and writes for the Spanish-language newspaper in NYC.
    edited July 26
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  • ivycoverivycover 135 replies1 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    In truth, Ambar has re-victimized the victims with her post trial statements.

    If one were to eliminate non alumni and Oberlin affiliated and or otherwise obligated editorializing there would be as a percentage virtually zero popular support for the school's legal position in this matter.

    Not only are the far right, conservatives, the center and the left critical of Oberlin's previous and current behavior but even radical socialists as well. Oberlin's support in this matter is the narrowest slice of the political spectrum. Is it more than anarchists and radical liberationists?
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  • ivycoverivycover 135 replies1 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
  • willowglenwillowglen 14 replies0 threadsRegistered User New Member
    To those considering going to school here, the Gibson trial exemplifies what happens when the hard left - not traditional liberals but the hard intolerant left such as the Oberlin administration - comes into real contact with ordinary middle class Americans. The result is what you see in the jury verdict. Already a bit isolated in rural Ohio, the ideological bubble could make it more so, although I might add that any student raised with values to be a good neighbor and citizen could likely go out in the local community and be welcomed. I went to a school with a much better reputation than Oberlin on athletic scholarship, but worked summers as a Teamster. I would have had hell to pay from some of my Teamster elders - father figures to me - if I behaved in a way that did not respect neighbors. I learned to shut up and work. It does come down to a question of values. The first black student body President at my school was elected when I attended. I voted for him not because he was black, not because he was gregarious, but rather because he ran on a campaign to treat the University workers - housekeepers, hospital workers at one of the best hospitals in the nation, and the local townspeople, some if whom were poor, with dignity and respect. He reminded us of the importance of humility. If I were looking at this Oberlin, I would suggest that the administration inhale a dose of what my student body President friend was selling. Ironically, he is a successful attorney in Ohio today.
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  • thibaultthibault 117 replies4 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    A view of this debacle ("Ideology and Facts Collide at Oberlin College") from the only journalist to cover it in any depth, the freelancer Daniel McGraw - excerpt:

    "The case aroused a great deal of interest in legal, academic, and civil rights communities, which in turn produced a great deal of commentary, much of which was tendentious, speculative, and/or uninformed.

    "The news coverage of this case was puzzling from the beginning. It was a case that involved college student protests, a liberal arts college with a history of progressive activism, free market economics, free speech, defamation, accusations of racism, and other timely issues.

    "The media used to love stories like these, but now they don’t seem to know what to do with them. Because life is often complicated and the facts don’t readily fit the political narratives on the Left or Right. ..."

    https://quillette.com/2019/06/20/ideology-and-facts-collide-at-oberlin-college/
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  • thibaultthibault 117 replies4 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    #71 - bond signatories: fascinating. One of the three signatories, "Meredith Raimondo," has no title listed - only her name.

    Has OC already cut her loose?

    Or is the absence of a title merely a recognition that she is Li sted separately as a co-defendant?

    Or both?
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  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone 22642 replies15 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Note the signatories. The irony in this is inescapable:

    How so? The defendants, the college and Raimondo, signed, as well as a representative of the bond company. Why is that ironic?
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  • thibaultthibault 117 replies4 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    What is Raimondo's liability / financial exposure?
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  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone 22642 replies15 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    She's a defendant. Usually all defendants have joint and several liability. I didn't look to see if they divided out the damages per defendant, but if not she's liable for it all.
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  • JBStillFlyingJBStillFlying 6618 replies22 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    If a person was named in the judgement, they are included on the bond. Oberlin is covering her legal exposure, is my understanding. Legal Insurrection will have the details.
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  • bearpantherbearpanther 674 replies12 threadsRegistered User Member
    Not sure if I can post a link to legal insurrection, but there is a new article up. David Gibson posted a video on FB indicating that he is dying of pancreatic cancer, that Oberlin knows this (and even blocked mention of it in court), and that the college is delaying payment ad continuing to pursue the case because they think they can hold out until David and his 91 year old father pass away.
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  • JBStillFlyingJBStillFlying 6618 replies22 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    edited August 7
    ^ Wondering if the Gibsons can petition for an expedited appeals process based on that news (of David Gibson's poor health). Thoughts?
    edited August 7
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