Welcome to College Confidential!

The leading college-bound community on the web

Sign Up For Free

Join for FREE, and start talking with other members, weighing in on community discussions, and more.

Also, by registering and logging in you'll see fewer ads and pesky welcome messages (like this one!)

As a CC member, you can:

  • Reply to threads, and start your own.
  • Post reviews of your campus visits.
  • Find hundreds of pages of informative articles.
  • Search from over 3 million scholarships.
Please take a moment to read our updated TOS, Privacy Policy, and Forum Rules.

iPad mini et al

1235789

Replies to: iPad mini et al

  • BCEagle91BCEagle91 Registered User Posts: 22,762 Senior Member
    You can get spoiled by Apple's CS.

    When I buy other brands, I make absolutely sure that the quality is top-notch and that I won't be unhappy with it.

    I could buy a Microsoft product but their store is an hour away. My Apple Store is ten minutes from my office if I need service or help. I buy cars the same way - look for good quality and good local service. Price is secondary to those two things.
  • BunsenBurnerBunsenBurner Registered User Posts: 32,502 Senior Member
    "Some things are just stupid. The dumb ad about the new way to work: with a stylus. Showing the stylus doing all sorts of things you can do just as well or better with your finger"

    Graphic artists will disagree. Painting a picture with amouse or a finger is not the same as using a pressure sensitive device. There is a market for stylus compatible tablets.
  • LergnomLergnom Registered User Posts: 7,926 Senior Member
    The ads didn't show an artist using a pen. I use a pen for drawing on my iPad. The tools are freakishly good. The ads showed people using a pen for "business use", like selecting a pie chart and moving it. That's dumb. I doubt the artist market is large enough for people to advertise much for it on tv.

    When Apple releases a new product, they generally take back recently sold older ones. It's always good to remember that and to check on line to see how people are faring with returns.

    As to sales, I saw that Asustek, which makes the Nexus tablet, says that "sales" neared 1 million last month. I put "sales" in quotes because Asustek "sales" are actually Nexus shipments and the press gets that wrong. It looks like the Nexus 7 is selling reasonably well. Not 1 million a month as of now. It's hard to figure what actual sales would be because they may still be putting inventory into the channels as Nexus 7 distribution expands. I mention this not to bang on Google - except to say I want them to report sales and shipments of their products - but to note that the only real numbers we get are from Apple. They sold 17 million iPads last quarter, which is over 5 million actually sold. If we look at Asustek's sales number, we might say the Nexus 7 has an almost 19% market share. But what are actual sales? If actual sales are 500k, that number is 9.5%, and so on.
  • BCEagle91BCEagle91 Registered User Posts: 22,762 Senior Member
    The only distributors that I'm aware of for the Nexus 7 are Google and Staples and Staples was only added recently. I'd guess that the majority of those that have bought the Nexus 7 to date are geeks where the low price is good enough for many to just buy one to give Android a try.
  • LergnomLergnom Registered User Posts: 7,926 Senior Member
    I would think the distribution is being extended to more countries and that sucks up inventory. A million units with some measure of global distribution is not a lot of channel inventory. I assume they don't run their supply / delivery chain with the just-in-time efficiency of Apple, meaning they need more inventory.
  • BCEagle91BCEagle91 Registered User Posts: 22,762 Senior Member
    The initial launch was just US mail-order from Google this past summer. You went online, placed your order and got it 3-5 days later. I think that it was wildly more succesful than they thought it would be. I don't think that their Nexus phones have been anywhere near as successful.
  • xiggixiggi Registered User Posts: 25,432 Senior Member
    The actual 2012 sales might not bear much significance in the future. While there is no doubt that the iPad remains the 800 lbs gorilla, its prime mover advantage will erode as more competitive products emerge. The unveiling of the Mini is a clear evidence that Apple does not think it could fend off all alternatives by sticking to a "the iPad is the best. Period" motto.

    Fwiw, what the latest iterations of the iPad and iPhone have shown is that there are clear limits to the innovation in tablets. Apple made a bang with iPhone and iPad and captivated and captured a market that was fascinated by the product. Since then, as the commercials of Samsung illuminate, there are others tools on the market that openly defy the concept that Apple is still the best. In addition, one has noticed --with glee or despair-- how the darling company that could do no wrong has accumulated commercial blunders recently. Even die hard fans did not find the Apple Maps debacle or the cannibalization of the "New iPad" within six months endearing.

    The iPad will probably remain the leader for passive tablets destined to the more gullible leisure market, and perhaps the educational market. On the other hand, the new waves of tablets, hybrid, and ultrabooks will attract the business operators that value an interactive device that allows for input that transcends a finger or stylus. People might deride what MS or Google are introducing but the reality remains that running spreadsheets and processing text is a royal PITA on anything else than a device that looks and feels like a real computer, be a desktop or a bona fide laptop.

    Not to mention accessing ALL websites, including the ones that still require Flash!
  • emeraldkity4emeraldkity4 Registered User Posts: 35,861 Senior Member
    Xiggi, did you know there are a ton of browsers for ipad/iPhone besides Safari?

    Many emulate Flash.
    When CC was having all the problems with posting, I used Puffin.
  • BunsenBurnerBunsenBurner Registered User Posts: 32,502 Senior Member
    ...And they still do not work as well as the real deal. Too bad.

    Lergnom, I did not see the ads. Yes, moving a pie chart with a stylus is stupid. They should have shown something that could replace an Intuos, for example.
  • xiggixiggi Registered User Posts: 25,432 Senior Member
    EK, let me check what I have loaded on my iPad! Here are a few ... Atomic Web, Diigo, iSwifter.

    YMMV for how well those browsers work!
  • emeraldkity4emeraldkity4 Registered User Posts: 35,861 Senior Member
    I agree that it depends on the sites, but I have found that most website managers are on top of customer experience and are aware that their viewers may be using more than one device/browser, including Safari.

    Can I Play Flash on iPad? Yes!


    I like not having to use a stylus, however I am interested in the new wave of pressure sensitive styli being released.
    I agree they add quite a bit to graphic apps.
    Pogo Connect: Pressure-sensitive Bluetooth 4.0 Stylus for iPad | iPad Insight
  • LergnomLergnom Registered User Posts: 7,926 Senior Member
    I have trouble dealing with posts that include lines like this "passive tablets destined to the more gullible leisure market." I don't believe in denigrating the marketplace. If people buy the thing, they buy the thing. That's the market speaking.

    When the iPad came out, flash was the de facto internet video standard. It is no longer that. In fact, it is no longer even supported by Adobe for that but instead is being treated as a means of writing/developing which is then translated into web standard video/animation. The iPad drove that. When it came out, the ads for competing tablets were "the whole web" and pundits made a big deal out of the lack of flash as a competitive disadvantage. The iPad not only outsold all other tablets, driving most of them out of the game, but it is about 95% of all tablet web traffic. Google doesn't support flash either. The Surface RT supports only MS approved whitelist flash sites.

    I remember a piece in a major news source that listed sites you couldn't see on an iPad. All of them no longer use flash or serve up what's appropriate. I mention that last bit because sometimes a site may serve flash because it's supported even though flash is not as good as other options.

    In other words, people are free to find value in legacy websites that require flash and to buy a table to access those. But the market has said quite clearly that flash is meaningless.

    BTW, if you think intentional cannibalization is a mistake, look at Apple history. That's what they do. They brought out the iPod mini knowing it would cannibalize iPod sales. It did. It ate them and became by far the most popular iPod. They want to eat their own products because they know others will do that for them. MS should have listened to that years ago but they have often chained themselves to legacy. Apple has cannibalized sales with their phones as well. The top selling phone at major carriers is often the older iPhone. Apple could stop selling those to drive sales to the new phone but they prefer to eat their own products.

    I would expect, in this vein, that Apple will release a new mini next spring, early summer. The current mini will then drop in price. They will cannibalize future mini sales with that price drop.

    While people are free to predict Apple's demise, etc., remember they are production constrained not demand constrained. They sell what they make and are constrained by the investment necessary and production steps necessary to make more. Other manufacturers are constrained in general by demand. The mini is priced as it is in part because setting the lower price would not increase sales; they sell every one they make.

    I respect MS, Google, Amazon. I fear Google most because they, unlike MS, are not bound by legacy and respond very quickly with very little regard to the intellectual property of others. Apple could count on MS taking forever to respond and then doing it half-way because they would be more interested in maintaining some legacy product than in breaking new ground. Google, by contrast, can take Siri and improve on it. Odds are they literally took stuff but they aren't constrained by that or by legacy politics. I suspect the software executive changes at Apple may reflect this threat more than arguments over whether iCal should have stitches like a notebook.

    And again, I'm glad that MS is doing the Surface. But I'm disheartened by the idiotic comments made recently. They say they were always first but were distracted by security issues. Bull. That says they're still lying to themselves. And then Ballmer, who has not done well, comes out and says that Apple is a low volume company in phones. This when MS has next to zero market share. Again, lying to yourself is not good. I think they could use a management change.

    BTW, I haven't used pressure sensitive pens yet either.
  • emeraldkity4emeraldkity4 Registered User Posts: 35,861 Senior Member
    I have trouble dealing with posts that include lines like this "passive tablets destined to the more gullible leisure market." I don't believe in denigrating the marketplace. If people buy the thing, they buy the thing. That's the market speaking.

    I take xiggis multiple posts regarding Apple products with a kilo of salt. I think he is just resentful that he couldn't resist jumping on the bandwagon alongside those who are motivated by trends.
    ;)
    Even my brother who is an electrical engineer, and has been tinkering with electronics since high school, has now become a Macevangelist. ( of course he is also a conspiracy theorist so I'm not saying his logic has improved)
  • BCEagle91BCEagle91 Registered User Posts: 22,762 Senior Member
    > When the iPad came out, flash was the de facto internet video
    > standard. It is no longer that. In fact, it is no longer even
    > supported by Adobe for that but instead is being treated as a means of
    > writing/developing which is then translated into web standard
    > video/animation. The iPad drove that.

    It may have been the standard but organizations were already looking
    towards replacements at the time.

    > I respect MS, Google, Amazon. I fear Google most because they, unlike
    > MS, are not bound by legacy and respond very quickly with very little
    > regard to the intellectual property of others.

    I'd add that they have a different business model where they don't have
    to make money on the hardware and software. This is why they can make
    something like a Nexus 7 which Apple and Microsoft can't.
  • LergnomLergnom Registered User Posts: 7,926 Senior Member
    BTW, in the realm of how things are reported. I read the Asustek executive's words I noted above. Then I read them in a blog that linked to a report of the words. The link said the executive referred to actual sales. I didn't see that in the original story. Now I'm seeing links to the story reporting on the original story. It may be he referred to actual sales but if so it wasn't in the original source and now there's a link to a story that only cites a source that doesn't say what the link says. That is how accuracy is lost.

    I was interested in HTML5 when it came out. I've never liked flash. It's a resource hog. But I'm in a non-profit that chose flash then because it was cheapest to do.

    I distinguish between the business models too. But I separate Amazon. It is a merchandising business that, rather remarkably, remains afloat because it has seemingly unlimited support from Wall Street. It makes no money. It even loses money. I'm of mixed minds about it because a company that destroys the business of others while losing money on its own is in the long run not necessarily a good thing for us.

    I think Google is aware of its margins but it has the benefit of dominance in a lucrative area of advertising related to search. It clearly thinks for the long run - see maps - and is willing to absorb cost but not like Amazon. Google mints cash. It is very profitable.

    Apple's business is not as simple as it looks. They are, IMHO, driven as much by margins as anything else. The margin they make is their metric. This drives their obsession with their product supply chain. Witness the change in margin over time. It drops with new products added, ramps up as the products become more efficient, grows even more as older products continue to sell (like older phones, older iPads). I assume they figure that drop and rise into the iPad mini. Release the next one and the old one sells at higher margin even as the margins increase for this form factor generally.
This discussion has been closed.