Welcome to College Confidential!

The leading college-bound community on the web

Sign Up For Free

Join for FREE, and start talking with other members, weighing in on community discussions, and more.

Also, by registering and logging in you'll see fewer ads and pesky welcome messages (like this one!)

As a CC member, you can:

  • Reply to threads, and start your own.
  • Post reviews of your campus visits.
  • Find hundreds of pages of informative articles.
  • Search from over 3 million scholarships.

How Do We Deal with the Violently Mentally Ill?

1234568

Replies to: How Do We Deal with the Violently Mentally Ill?

  • doschicosdoschicos Registered User Posts: 20,408 Senior Member
    Please tell me where I or anyone else has said that? We haven't at all.
  • TomSrOfBostonTomSrOfBoston Registered User Posts: 15,601 Senior Member
    edited February 2018
    @doschics @MassDaD68 posted
    The laws of this country seem to punish people for DOING bad deeds and not for thinking about doing bad deeds. So until someone does something horrible like happened in your library, there is nothing that can be done. [/quote[
  • doschicosdoschicos Registered User Posts: 20,408 Senior Member
    edited February 2018
    And from that comment you jumped to the assumption you posted?!

    There has been talk here of greater resources. There has also been talk here of individual rights vs. societal protections, which I think the comment you quoted is addressing. I think most here recognize that both should be valued and there isn't an easy solution that values both ideas.

    So, are you proposing locking people away for thinking about bad things?
  • skieuropeskieurope Super Moderator Posts: 43,702 Super Moderator
    MODERATOR'S NOTE:
    And you were all doing so well. :)
    So, are you proposing locking people away for thinking about bad things?
    Let's pretend that the question is rhetorical.
  • jym626jym626 Registered User Posts: 57,385 Senior Member
    edited February 2018
    The laws of this country seem to punish people for DOING bad deeds and not for thinking about doing bad deeds. So until someone does something horrible like happened in your library, there is nothing that can be done.
    That is correct. You cannot detain someone for having bad thoughts per se. Under the state involuntary hospitalization laws, the person can be taken for evaluation if they pose an IMMINENT threat to themselves or others. And at least my state, the mental health professional has to have seen the person within the past 48 hrs to initiate that process (have the sheriff transport the person for a psych eval). In the past 2 family members could sign for this, but I think that is no longer the case.

    So , even if a person shows "signs" of being dangerous, I do not know of any regulation, until they actually break the law and/or make a direct threat , that can lead to their being lawfully detained.

    There are avenues to request a restraining order when indicated, but again until the person violates the restraining order, their freedom is not taken away.
  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger Registered User Posts: 2,766 Senior Member
    edited February 2018
    @doschicos @Nrdsb4

    If you want to establish causation, the gold standard for all scientific research is a randomized control trial.
  • Nrdsb4Nrdsb4 Registered User Posts: 16,793 Senior Member
    edited February 2018
    @roethlisburger, the fact that causation has not been established does not make it an opinion. It makes it a hypothesis, which is not the same thing. I said nothing of whether or not the statement romani made illustrated causation, or whether or not it was true or false, simply that it is not an opinion. The "likelihood of x occurring goes up if y is present" can be shown to be true or false. Even then, it doesn't prove causation, because confounding variables may be present that haven't been controlled for. Even so, either the statement is true or false, and can be shown to be true or false.

    Broccoli tastes awful.
    The Beatles are overrated.
    Brad Pitt is more handsome than Tom Cruise.
    Texas BBQ is so much better than NC BBQ.

    Those are all opinions.

  • doschicosdoschicos Registered User Posts: 20,408 Senior Member
    edited February 2018
    I could definitely imagine scenarios where the old "2 family members sign off" thing could have been open to abuse.
  • TomSrOfBostonTomSrOfBoston Registered User Posts: 15,601 Senior Member
    A more detailed description of the Winchester incident and Mr. Yao's past actions against his neighbors.
    http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/02/26/man-who-fatally-stabbed-woman-winchester-library-due-court/OEY4TiwKl0xbtnnhRD97sI/story.html
  • jym626jym626 Registered User Posts: 57,385 Senior Member
    edited February 2018
    The “2 family members signing” just gets the person transported to the hospital for evaluation. It does not necessarily get them admitted. In the case of the FL shooter, who had not AFAIK seen a MH provider in the few days prior to his shooting spree, if FL had that option (can’t recall the Baker act regulations) and if the family who were his guardians had, for example, heard or read him making imminent threats and could have had him involuntarily transported for evaluation, 17 lives might have been saved and we might not be having this conversation.
  • MaineLonghornMaineLonghorn Super Moderator Posts: 39,325 Super Moderator
    edited February 2018
    The victim in the Winchester murder was a first-year medical student at the University of New England, where I have spoken in the past. :( It sounds like she was a wonderful young woman.
  • momofthreeboysmomofthreeboys Registered User Posts: 16,677 Senior Member
    #115 They need open beds also. In the "community" hospital I worked for in the past we only had 8 beds in the l behavior health lock down unit and we were the only one in the county with a in-patient unit....so another hour to get to another facility.
  • doschicosdoschicos Registered User Posts: 20,408 Senior Member
    From the link I posted back in #51:

    " By 2010, there were 43,000 psychiatric beds available. This equated to about 14 beds per 100,000 people. This was the same ratio as in 1850."
  • jym626jym626 Registered User Posts: 57,385 Senior Member
    edited February 2018
    @momofthreeboys - not all of the hospitals around here are emergency receiving facilities. So patientssometimes sit in the ER for hours and hours and then , if committed, have to get transported elsewhere.... if they have insurance. There are very few public facilities these days, and those that are still around are poorly run, understaffed and overcrowded.
  • MaineLonghornMaineLonghorn Super Moderator Posts: 39,325 Super Moderator
    ^I guess my son sat overnight in a local ER until he was transported to the psych hospital. Since we weren't notified of the incident until two days later, I'm not sure. :(
This discussion has been closed.