right arrow
Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04

The Responsibility of Police Officers

12357

Replies to: The Responsibility of Police Officers

  • IgloooIglooo 8075 replies205 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 8,280 Senior Member
    Do you get a call when a firecracker goes off? First of all, we are not skewing him for nothing. It was his boss who put it on him. What else were we supposed to think? Yes, there could be more to this since the investigation is taking so long. Naive me thinks it's just a matter of viewing the video/audio tape that can't be more than 10-15 minutes long.
    · Reply · Share
  • doschicosdoschicos 20475 replies209 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 20,684 Senior Member
    "Do you get a call when a firecracker goes off?"
    At a school when you are a SRO, my guess is probably yes.

    "What else were we supposed to think?"

    I can't tell you what you are supposed to think. I'm just telling you that I think I don't have enough info to form a reasonable opinion. Experience has taught me not to jump to conclusions based on very little concrete info and just emotions. This guy may well deserve being skewered but neither side has provided enough details to garner my support for their claims. What exactly do we know? Next to nothing.
    · Reply · Share
  • Nrdsb4Nrdsb4 16733 replies156 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 16,889 Senior Member
    edited February 2018
    Nor should we attribute magical powers to an AR-15. Even if the shooter has an AR-15, it doesn’t mean he can hit the broad side of a barn.

    Come on. If you shoot an AR-15 into a crowd of students, you are hitting someone. Olympic caliber marksmanship is not required.
    edited February 2018
    · Reply · Share
  • doschicosdoschicos 20475 replies209 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 20,684 Senior Member
    In fact, that's the selling point of the AR-15 and what makes it popular: easy of use and the firing power
    · Reply · Share
  • sylvan8798sylvan8798 6637 replies140 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 6,777 Senior Member
    If they arm 20-40% of the teachers in every school, it would require retraining the police to yell "ARE YOU THE SHOOTER?!!" in every active shooter situation. Probably complicate things a bit.
    · Reply · Share
  • Time2ShineTime2Shine 215 replies12 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 227 Junior Member
    Interestingly, more Americans were killed by rifles during the 10 years of the 1994 Assualt Weapons Ban than have been killed by rifles in the 13 years since it was allowed to expire. I'd say 99.5% of the population would never guess that to be true.
    · Reply · Share
  • doschicosdoschicos 20475 replies209 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 20,684 Senior Member
    edited February 2018
    ^how is that relevant to the discussion and can the same be said for mass shootings of the type that are being talked about here with the Parkland shooting?

    Additionally if you are going to state something that should have statistical backing, it would be helpful to have a legitimate source to link to.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2013/02/did-the-1994-assault-weapons-ban-work/

    Also, crime has been on a downtrend overall despite headlines and that is due to a range of factors.
    edited February 2018
    · Reply · Share
  • Ohiodad51Ohiodad51 2451 replies41 discussionsForum Champion Athletic Recruits Posts: 2,492 Forum Champion
    edited February 2018
    Interestingly, more Americans were killed by rifles during the 10 years of the 1994 Assualt Weapons Ban than have been killed by rifles in the 13 years since it was allowed to expire. I'd say 99.5% of the population would never guess that to be true.

    ^the complete lack of knowledge about firearms generally in the media culture is really something. MSNBC spent two/three days banging on about the difference in muzzle velocity between an AR 15 and a couple different hand guns. It is sad that people really seem to think this somehow makes a difference to anything at all.
    edited February 2018
    · Reply · Share
  • Time2ShineTime2Shine 215 replies12 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 227 Junior Member
    @doschicos I'm just offering non-partisan statistical info relevant to the discussion of rifles in this thread. If people choose to talk about them I believe it best that everyone involved has all the pertinent information.

    Check out the FBI Uniform Crime reports that I took the information from. It's pretty labor intensive, though.

    https://ucr.fbi.gov/ucr-publications.



    · Reply · Share
  • Time2ShineTime2Shine 215 replies12 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 227 Junior Member
    Why a School Resource Officer isn't issued a rifle for his vehicle is a viable topic of discussion at this point. An officer should be appropriately equipped if expected to charge towards an active shooter.
    · Reply · Share
  • Ohiodad51Ohiodad51 2451 replies41 discussionsForum Champion Athletic Recruits Posts: 2,492 Forum Champion
    ^how is that relevant to the discussion and can the same be said for mass shootings of the type that are being talked about here with the Parkland shooting?

    I think the point rational people are trying to make about the choice of weapon in the Parkland shooting is that it is very likely the shooter could have been as lethal with a handgun or any number of different types of rifles as with an AR 15. Personally, I think the deadliest potential weapon of all in a school shooting would be a regular old pump or semi auto 12 ga shotgun. It is a statistical fact that far more "mass" shootings (I believe that means four or more deaths) are perpetrated with handguns than any other weapon type. Here is your link: www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/

    So to some of us, the emotional reaction of others in the wake of the Parkland shooting is not the best grounds for setting policy. This is particularly true where the available evidence doesn't support the idea that banning a particular weapon type would have an appreciable impact on the statistics.
    · Reply · Share
  • Ohiodad51Ohiodad51 2451 replies41 discussionsForum Champion Athletic Recruits Posts: 2,492 Forum Champion
    Why a School Resource Officer isn't issued a rifle for his vehicle is a viable topic of discussion at this point. An officer should be appropriately equipped if expected to charge towards an active shooter.

    I would be willing to bet quite a bit that most trained law enforcement officers would prefer to engage a shooter in a closed environment with a hand gun they carry on their person rather than a rifle they would have to go and retrieve from a vehicle. These things happen very quickly usually. The 3-4 minutes (as a guess) to run to the car, get the rifle and reengage could make a huge difference in outcome. Plus, quite frankly the idea that some kid with an AR 15 is at some immense firepower advantage over an officer with a semi automatic pistol at distances of anything less than 25/30 feet is way overblown, imho.
    · Reply · Share
  • Cardinal FangCardinal Fang 18222 replies156 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 18,378 Senior Member
    I think the point rational people are trying to make about the choice of weapon in the Parkland shooting is that it is very likely the shooter could have been as lethal with a handgun

    The Atlantic article refutes this claim in detail. The writer, a radiologist who was on duty during the Parkland shooting, writes about how she was surprised that the bullet injuries from Parkland were so terrible, nothing like the handgun injuries she normally sees. If you're shot through the liver with a handgun, she writes, you will probably survive. If you're shot through the liver with an AR-15, you're toast. A bullet from an AR-15 is way more deadly than a bullet from a handgun.

    · Reply · Share
  • Time2ShineTime2Shine 215 replies12 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 227 Junior Member
    Ohiodad51 wrote:
    I think the point rational people are trying to make about the choice of weapon in the Parkland shooting is that it is very likely the shooter could have been as lethal with a handgun
    The Atlantic article refutes this claim in detail. The writer, a radiologist who was on duty during the Parkland shooting, writes about how she was surprised that the bullet injuries from Parkland were so terrible, nothing like the handgun injuries she normally sees. If you're shot through the liver with a handgun, she writes, you will probably survive. If you're shot through the liver with an AR-15, you're toast. A bullet from an AR-15 is way more deadly than a bullet from a handgun.

    The horrendous Virginia Tech shooting is still the worst in the history of our nation. It was perpetrated with two low caliber handguns.

    Back to the original point of this thread.
    · Reply · Share
  • doschicosdoschicos 20475 replies209 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 20,684 Senior Member
    edited February 2018
    "Why a School Resource Officer isn't issued a rifle for his vehicle is a viable topic of discussion at this point. An officer should be appropriately equipped if expected to charge towards an active shooter."

    Running to a vehicle, wherever it might be on a school's campus, unlocking, running back would potentially take a lot of time.

    @Ohiodad51 My understanding is that AR-15s don't take much skill to use. Given the firepower, the velocity, the sheer number of bullets it can pump out in a limited amount of time, little recoil, etc., if your goal is to kill a lot of people, it is very efficient at that. With a handgun, it seems there is a lot more skill involved to aim and kill.

    Here's another read on Ar-15s:
    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/how-the-ar-15-became-mass-shooters-weapon-of-choice-w451452

    "The horrendous Virginia Tech shooting is still the worst in the history of our nation."
    Although they all suck, it isn't the worst if you're talking death toll and mass shootings.
    edited February 2018
    · Reply · Share
  • Time2ShineTime2Shine 215 replies12 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 227 Junior Member
    doschicos wrote:
    Although they all suck, it isn't the worst if you're talking death toll and mass shootings.

    I meant worst school shooting. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
    · Reply · Share
  • Nrdsb4Nrdsb4 16733 replies156 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 16,889 Senior Member
    Genuine question: If the VT shooter HAD had an AR-15, would he have killed fewer people, the same number, or more?
    · Reply · Share
  • Cardinal FangCardinal Fang 18222 replies156 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 18,378 Senior Member
    The horrendous Virginia Tech shooting is still the worst in the history of our nation. It was perpetrated with two low caliber handguns.

    The history of our nation includes the Las Vegas shooting. Virginia Tech, 32 dead 17 wounded. Las Vegas, 58 dead, 851 (!!!!) injured.
    · Reply · Share
  • milee30milee30 1987 replies13 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 2,000 Senior Member
    "My understanding is that AR-15s don't take much skill to use. Given the firepower, the velocity, the sheer number of bullets it can pump out in a limited amount of time, little recoil, etc., if your goal is to kill a lot of people, it is very efficient at that. With a handgun, it seems there is a lot more skill involved to aim and kill."

    I'm not sure I'd agree with this. My husband is a range safety officer and board member of several local shooting ranges/gun clubs; he participates in and officiates at several different type of shooting competitions including something called "Three Gun" where competitors complete different target shooting scenarios using a handgun, rifle and shotgun. None of this is something I especially seek out (if DH weren't in my life I wouldn't even own a gun), but for the sake of being supportive, I've participated in the various trainings and even a few competitions.

    If you have a stationary position upon which to steady the weapon, a rifle (and an AR is just an example of a rifle) is very easy and efficient once you've zeroed in on a target. But that's not my understanding of how the school shooting happened. If a shooter is wandering through rooms and shooting from a standing position, it can get tiring quickly to aim and steady a rifle. Walking into a classroom, for example, it would probably be easier to aim and accurately fire a handgun than a rifle. And after several minutes of wandering around and shooting, unless the shooter has done quite a bit of practice, that rifle gets heavy and accuracy decreases quickly.

    And with a very small amount of practice, it takes someone around one second to drop an empty magazine, insert a new one and be ready to fire a handgun again. After watching just a few of the competitions, I quickly became disillusioned with the idea that banning large capacity magazines would make one iota of difference in these mass shooting situations. Even if each magazine only holds 10 bullets, it takes almost no time to switch them out, so I'm not convinced that's a factor in the casualty rate of the shootings.

    · Reply · Share
This discussion has been closed.

Recent Activity