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Walmart sued over displaying homeopathic treatments ..


Replies to: Walmart sued over displaying homeopathic treatments ..

  • MarianMarian Registered User Posts: 13,241 Senior Member
    Homeopathic does have a specific meaning. You might want to look at this NIH webpage for an explanation: https://nccih.nih.gov/health/homeopathy

    This document from the Center for Science in the Public Interest -- the publishers of Nutrition Action -- might also be of interest. https://cspinet.org/resource/cspi-comments-fda-re-risk-based-enforcement-approach-homeopathic-drugs They do NOT endorse homeopathy. In fact, they have expressed concerns about its safety and support for FDA's proposed tighter regulation of homeopathic products.
  • CreeklandCreekland Registered User Posts: 5,628 Senior Member
    Milk thistle may have physiological effects, milk thistle diluted to zero does not.

    Which is why it's incredibly important to use a reputable supplier. When I read Consumer Labs report on it only two samples they tested had in them what the bottles claimed. If I recall correctly, some had none.

    @Marian I'm in full agreement with that article. I use it in school to teach about various remedies. Everyone needs to do their research intelligently. When I'm full time for Bio I often have kids read Nutrition Action. Out of all the things I've researched I only continually use two - though I suppose technically those two are supplements, not homeopathic remedies.

    Of homeopathic remedies, I have found Cold Eeze to be reliable at shortening a duration of colds if taken early - as has Nutrition Action. Med school lad says his peers use it too.

    They aren't 100% bad as some on this thread were implying. They also aren't 100% real - or even 50/50 - but dismissing them (or supplements) out of hand can be as wrong as gushing over them because someone at Dollar General swears by X when making small talk.
  • MarianMarian Registered User Posts: 13,241 Senior Member
    Cold Eeze is marketed as homeopathic but it doesn't conform to the philosophy of homeopathy. It isn't highly dilute. It has quite a lot of zinc in it. So it's not surprising that it might actually do something.

    I'm not sure how the company gets away with marketing this product as homeopathic.
  • BunsenBurnerBunsenBurner Registered User Posts: 38,700 Senior Member
    I think folks often confuse naturopathic and homeopathic stuff.
  • CreeklandCreekland Registered User Posts: 5,628 Senior Member
    I think folks often confuse naturopathic and homeopathic stuff.

    This is quite probably the problem, but companies like Cold Eeze putting it on their box makes the line quite murky.

    Regardless of what anyone is thinking of taking - even if prescribed - I always recommend people look into it first using only reputable sources. I know people who took prescription meds at the wrong time because they were never told when to take it (with food, etc). Simple research answers many questions - or at least lets folks know what they're dealing with for pros/cons.
  • yucca10yucca10 Registered User Posts: 1,151 Senior Member
    Medicines marketed as homeopathic sometimes are not, as noted earlier in this thread. Another case in point: I have arnica gel which did help with bruises somewhat, and I noticed it lists the ingredient as a proper homeopathic solution of arnica "in a base of witch hazel". Witch hazel is known to contain ingredients that help reduce bruises and swelling.
  • Cardinal FangCardinal Fang Registered User Posts: 18,332 Senior Member
    Milk thistle may have physiological effects, milk thistle diluted to zero does not.
    Which is why it's incredibly important to use a reputable supplier.

    If you get a milk thistle homeopathic remedy, and it actually has milk thistle in it, you've been cheated. If you believe homeopathy, then you should expect your reputable supplier of homeopathic drugs to give you drugs diluted to zero. Zero is the claimed effective dose for milk thistle (and everything else), for homeopaths.
  • CreeklandCreekland Registered User Posts: 5,628 Senior Member
    I suppose it's because we live rural, but a quick survey of adults I'm around has had everyone lump everything non-prescription under homeopathic. It can take a bit longer for some words to reach here I guess. I need to ask med school lad how he defines it because I'm curious.

    I wonder if the surveys listed in the link above checked first to make sure everyone was on the same wavelength with how the word is defined. Oodles of people I know use anything from supplements to essential oils. I'm not sure anyone at all believes in the "less is more" theory.

    In theory I can educate those around me about the differences via my job, but my last day at school is tomorrow and it's not a "class" day. It's 100% a "fun" day so it won't come up this year except for the discussions I've already had. In those folks called the NIH definition "witch doctoring."

    Interesting thing to learn today though!

    @Cardinal Fang I trust Consumer Labs to have done thorough reports on whether what they test is what it's supposed to be. At some point, one has to trust someone. Since Milk Thistle comes from Europe I can hardly make/get it myself as I can with ginger. They came up with two suppliers that contained what the label said. The rest did not. I doubt I've been cheated, but those buying the other suppliers probably are.
  • greenwitchgreenwitch Registered User Posts: 8,664 Senior Member
    I remember reading that Georgetown U hospital had used a medicine derived from milk thistle several years ago when the autumn was very rainy and several people had been poisoned by mushrooms they ate growing wild.

    I also remember reading about a woman who won a lawsuit when she completely lost her sense of smell after regularly using homeopathic nasal spray.

    Lack of rigorous testing, and assumptions that something can do no harm because it's not pharmaceutical, are the problems.
  • greenwitchgreenwitch Registered User Posts: 8,664 Senior Member
    edited May 23
    There is no federally approved treatment for mushroom poisoning. All four are being given an experimental drug used to treat poisoning. The intravenous drug made from milk thistle, is called Silibinin, and is being offered through the Georgetown University Medical Center research arm of the Georgetown Transplant Institute.

    Officials at the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) say they have received adverse reports involving Zicam, which was invented by several California entrepreneurs with credentials unusual for drug developers. (See "The Men Behind Zicam," at right.) The agency would not disclose the number of reports or comment further.

    Because Zicam contains a naturally occuring mineral -- zinc -- which is generally recognized as safe, and because it is labeled as a homeopathic remedy, it is exempt from the regulations governing safety testing and manufacturing that apply to many drugs.

    "This is not an FDA-regulated product," Zimmerman said.
  • CreeklandCreekland Registered User Posts: 5,628 Senior Member
    One take away med school lad had from his "ongoing studies" course (probably about supplements with the current language usage) is "Don't buy any that come from China." I suspect that eliminates many on Wally World's shelves, but haven't looked myself to see.
  • Cardinal FangCardinal Fang Registered User Posts: 18,332 Senior Member
    Milk thistle may or may not be a good treatment for some diseases. That's not my point. Homeopaths believe that the right dosage of a substance is zero, zip, nada. They take the substance, then dilute it repeatedly until there is none of it left-- none, not one molecule-- and then they give you the water or whatever they used to dilute away the substance. If that sounds like nonsense, it's because it is nonsense. Homeopathy is nonsense.

    Homeopaths tell stories about "water memory." There is no such thing as water memory.

    So if you are given a homeopathic remedy and it actually has a detectable amount of the substance, that is prima facie evidence that the homeopathic dilution wasn't done right.

    There are many natural or herbal remedies that work. Hey, chicken soup actually helps for a cold. But homeopathic remedies do nothing, because they are nothing. Expensive nothing.
  • CreeklandCreekland Registered User Posts: 5,628 Senior Member
    Yes, I've checked off my "Learn something new every day" box with the official definition of homeopathic compared to how it is used all over by many people in my area (far broader definition in my area). Folks on CC have more knowledge than I did on that one. Perhaps it's taught better in other areas. For me, around here, I would need to teach a bunch of people the correct definition if I choose to. Quite honestly, I probably won't except among school kids if it comes up.

    Milk thistle - as a supplement - is still being studied with conflicting results, but it's generally considered safe (just double checked with Mayo's site) and considering for multiple years my own bilirubin number was a wee bit high, but it has been in the normal range ever since 6 months post starting it, I'm giving it credit - assuming normal range is actually better for my body. 'Tis always possible my liver just aging fixed itself, of course, and the number changing is a coincidence. I don't plan to stop taking it to see without a really good reason.

    I learned about it when a doctor (MD - oncologist) suggested it for my mom if she wanted to try it. Cancer had spread to her liver from her esophagus. Might help. Probably won't hurt. She's lived for 2 1/2 years now after being told she had less than a year. I'm not giving credit for that to milk thistle. I give credit to her not being a smoker or heavy drinker. But, it doesn't seem like the milk thistle hurt. When I looked it up for her I mused about trying it myself to see if it might help - pure curiosity at that point. It sure seemed to.

    Though there is that placebo effect too (which I seriously doubt affected how my liver works, but hey, who knows?).
  • VaBluebirdVaBluebird Registered User Posts: 3,402 Senior Member
    Walmart are not the only ones. Hmmmm. My grocery store pharmacy has them right alongside the real meds and so does CVS.
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