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Are you Hispanic if you come from Spain?

Bobert_McCloudBobert_McCloud - Posts: 743 Member
edited December 2010 in Parent Cafe
Wikipedia classifies Spanish people as Hispanic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic

But isn't Spain European? Why would Europeans receive the URM hook in college applications?
Post edited by Bobert_McCloud on
«13

Replies to: Are you Hispanic if you come from Spain?

  • barronsbarrons Registered User Posts: 24,979 Senior Member
    No, International. No benefit.
  • Bobert_McCloudBobert_McCloud - Posts: 743 Member
    no, the scenario i was thinking of consists of an applicant who's u.s. born, but has parents who came from Spain
  • xiggixiggi Registered User Posts: 25,441 Senior Member
    http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/baroneblog/columns/barone_050831_2.htm

    Back in the 1980s, California Rep. Tony Coelho, who is of Portuguese descent, sought to become a member of the Hispanic Caucus. When asked how he could consider himself Hispanic, he presented a map of the Roman Empire in which the entire Iberian peninsula was labeled "Hispania." The caucus let him in, either because his argument was persuasive or, perhaps more to the point, because he was chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee.
  • xiggixiggi Registered User Posts: 25,441 Senior Member
    While the schools might use different criteria to assign "bonus" points, the definition of URM in college admissions is rather clear. For instance, it is absolutely incorrect that the the class of URM of hispanic heritage comprises solely Puerto Ricans and offspring of qualified Mexicans. The definition is much broader than that.

    It is rather easy to find the correct information from official sources.

    As far as the Hispanic, I can understand where the confusion starts. There exist some confusion about Spain and ... Portugal. While the case of Spain is clear-cut, the case of Portugal is still worthy of a discussion.

    1. The definition of the word "Hispanic" as used by the White House, clearly shows that the Portuguese are not to be considered Hispanic. It defines "Hispanic" as "a person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race."

    2. The Census Bureau also advised that the Portuguese should not choose "Hispanic" in the census. Therefore, when filling out the Census, the Portuguese should pick "not of Hispanic origin" in the ethnicity question just like all other non-Hispanics, and "white" in the race question, since "white" people are to be defined as people "having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, North Africa, or the Middle East."

    3. However, not all departments of the government seem to agree with the White House on how to classify the Portuguese culture. In the Library of Congress for example, Portuguese culture is located under the "Hispanic Division." Portuguese-American Congressman Tony Coelho was listed under the "Hispanic-Americans in Congress" section.

    4. There is no difference anymore between terms like Latinos and Hispanics. The definitions are ridiculous. Are the 150 millions Brazilians NOT latinos?

    5. Websters? used to define the word Hispanic as meaning "relating to or derived from the speech or culture of Spain or of Spain and Portugal."

    6. For every expert claiming Portugal is not Hispanic since they do not speak Spanish, you'll find another claiming the opposite since both Spain and Portugal form the Iberic Peninsula and were part of Hispania.

    My conclusion on this ... if you have ANY hispanic heritage, including from Portugal -that is your call - you could mark the OTHER hispanic box without hesitation! If the Library of Congress can assimilate the two cultures and races, so can YOU. And you have plenty of history to support your claim

    PS In case you had some doubts

    Anthony Coelho was born on June 15, 1942 in Los Baños, Merced County, California. His grandparents were Portuguese immigrants. He attended public schools in Dos Palos, California and in 1964 earned a B.A. degree from Loyola University in Los Angeles.
  • Bobert_McCloudBobert_McCloud - Posts: 743 Member
    a detailed explanation, but I had a different intent in mind:

    are Spainish people (from Spain) counted as European white or hispanic? i mean, geographically they would be European, which would not be URM. to me it makes little sense to count them as hispanic, since if those living in northern Spain are given a hook, why shouldn't those living in southern France be hooked as well?

    or maybe you have already answered the question? i couldn't tell sorry
  • ILoveBrownILoveBrown Registered User Posts: 1,521 Senior Member
    Technically, the term "Hispanic" usually means anyone with Native American (south of the border) and/or Spanish (Iberian Peninsula including Spanish and Portuguese) blood, or someone with African blood who is from Latin America.

    "Latino/a" or "Latin Amerian" usually refers to someone from Latin America, which could include people of Native American (south of the border) blood and/or Spanish/Portuguese via Latin America and/or African via Latin America but NOT people who were born in Spain/Portugal.

    But this question, and the discussion that follows, shows how strange and arbitrary our classifications of race are. Because if you look at a country like Spain and the people within it, they're obviously not all one race/ethnicity. Lots of Andalucians (southern Spain) have Arab/"moor" and North African blood and look very "dark" while many Basques look as fair as any Nordic person. And within "Latin Americans," many people look African, Native American, "white," "Spanish," or some combination thereof.
  • TiberiusTiberius Registered User Posts: 597 Member
    4. There is no difference anymore between terms like Latinos and Hispanics. The definitions are ridiculous. Are the 150 millions Brazilians NOT latinos?
    Actually Brazilians are Latinos but are not Hispanic. Do you want to know what other peoples are Latinos? French, Portuguese, Romanian, Spanish, and most importantly Italian people, especially those from the region of Latium.


    ILoveBrown, being Hispanic doesn't have anything to do with being Native American at all. Many Native Americans south of the border don't even speak Spanish and actually have retained their culture which has existed long before the time that the Spaniards arrived. I think you arrived to this conclusion due to many Hispanics having a phenotype that consists of a mix of a Native American and Spanish one.


    Bobert_McCloud, yes, Spanish people are European, are White and are Hispanic. You see, European is geographic identity, White is a racial identity, and Hispanic is a broad ethnic idenitity. People from Spain of course belong to the Spanish culture and the Spanish culture falls under the Hispanic culture category. A Hispanic culture is a culture that is a Spanish culture.


    But where does the name Hispanic come from?
    When the Romans invaded and conquered the Iberian peninsula they gave it the name of Hispania which pretty much means land of rabbits. When the crude languages arose as Latin declined, different forms of the name Hispania appeared: one being Spain and the other being España. Which is of course why the place isn't exactly called Hispania anymore, Hispania of course being the Latin name for the place.
  • coureurcoureur Registered User Posts: 11,386 Senior Member
    >>When asked how he could consider himself Hispanic, he presented a map of the Roman Empire in which the entire Iberian peninsula was labeled "Hispania."<<

    But even 2000 years ago there was a recognized difference between Portugal and Spain. The Romans carved off the portion of Hispania that closely corresponds to modern Portugal as a separate province under the name Lusitania.
  • ILoveBrownILoveBrown Registered User Posts: 1,521 Senior Member
    Tiberius -- let me clarify, I meant that those were how the terms are usually used in the United States. In the US, a non-Spanish-speaking Native American from, say, Yucatan or Morelos, could properly classify themselves as "Hispanic Non-White" on college applications.

    The term "Hispanic" has different meanings in different places and at different times, but I believe what I described are the most common uses of the term in the United States today.
  • driverdriver - Posts: 4,148 Senior Member
    The short answer to the OP is an unequivocal "yes." It's a language group, not a race. See: "Semite" for a similarly misunderstood term. The longer answer is that the concept of "Hispanic" as a race or ethnicity is one of the great fraudulent cottage industries of the later 20th century. White man Fidel Castro is Hispanic. Black man Teofilo Stevenson is Hispanic. Asian man Alberto Fujimori is Hispanic. It means that your ancestry is of partially Spanish origin, or that you come from a country that was once part of the Spanish empire and speaks the Spanish language. For college application purposes it means that you are of mixed Spanish/Native American ancestry--a mestizo.
  • xiggixiggi Registered User Posts: 25,441 Senior Member
    "Actually Brazilians are Latinos but are not Hispanic. Do you want to know what other peoples are Latinos? French, Portuguese, Romanian, Spanish, and most importantly Italian people, especially those from the region of Latium.
    "

    Tiberius, I believe that your assessment is quite incorrect. Your screen name might be Latin or Roman, but is it Latino? Are French Canadians also Latinos? Or Haitians?

    All this discussion is utterly sterile. If the question is posed in the CONTEXT of college admission, which I think it is on CC, the answer is again EXTREMELY simple. If there is connection and you are able to rely on any of the cases discussed herein, you CAN and SHOULD mark the ethnic origin. It is NOT your place as a student to spend weeks analyzing when a map started showing Iberia, Hispania, or Lusitania, or research if Brazilians in Santa Catarina speak Spanish, Portuguese, Portunol, or German, or if their skin is white as snow or black as coal. It simply does NOT matter.

    Except when schools specifically ask for deeper details, the test for Hispanics and Blacks is ONE DROP of BLOOD. If you feel that it is important to fully disclose your ethnic, racial, and culture background, attach a statement that describes your case. Remember that the selection of an ethnic minority DOES help the school as much as it helps the candidate. Unfair as it sounds, the racial -or URM- game is played by all parties with the same abandon.

    It really, really does not get any simpler than that!
  • LakeWashingtonLakeWashington Registered User Posts: 9,315 Senior Member
    Tiberius and Driver are correct.

    The historical study/review/perspective of race and ethic relations in the U.S. is quite deficient as we have erected erroneous definitions that nonetheless remain frustratingly prevalent. Hispanic and Latin are just the two most egregious examples.

    Any close reading of the history of immigration to the Americas will reveal that in more than one Latin American nation, the 20th century immigration patterns weren't all that different from that which occured in the U.S., to wit;
    Italians in Argentina, Japanese in Brazil and Peru, Germans and Poles in Mexico, Dutchmen in the Caribbean, etc. Anyone ever hear of Bernardo O'Farrell? He was a national liberation hero in 19th century Chile. His clan came straight from Ireland to South America. Erin go braugh!!!
    Here's one last ethinc grenade (LOL) to toss; is actor Martin Sheen Hispanic/Latin?
    His real name is Ramon Estevez and he was just featured in 'Irish American Magazine'.
  • xiggixiggi Registered User Posts: 25,441 Senior Member
    "Tiberius and Driver are correct."

    Are Tiberius and Driver saying the same thing? Could have fooled me.

    As far as the correct interpretation and classification of ethnic groups, how would you change them, Lake Washington?

    And if actors and actres are important to you, do you think that the blond blue eyed Cameron Diaz is Hispanic. How about the offspring of Martin Sheen? One borrows the name Estevez and the other Sheen. Does it make a difference if they have the same Spaniard as grandfather and the same Irish grandmother?
  • LakeWashingtonLakeWashington Registered User Posts: 9,315 Senior Member
    Xiggi, I didn't say that they said the same thing. They addressed some different points, which were accurate.

    As for how to change it, well it seems in the U.S., that horse has left the barn, so maybe it's fruitless to attempt to do change it. National politics have overwhelmed our collective attempts to be fair but not authoritarian on this issue. Like someone said, a person's identitity is pretty much their own business. The complication is that in contemporary America identity has a political currency, for better or worse. Particulary in college admissions and when in comes to gaming, i.e. Indian casinos. And now that some are exploiting the opportunities available with this newfound currency, occasionally we get backlash like the narrow-minded statement from Donald Trump; "some of them sure don't look like Indians to me."
  • barronsbarrons Registered User Posts: 24,979 Senior Member
    I think only schools most desperate to improve their numbers of "minority" students would give it much credit.
This discussion has been closed.