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time mag article "Sexual Assault Crisis on American campuses"


Replies to: time mag article "Sexual Assault Crisis on American campuses"

  • ConsolationConsolation Registered User Posts: 23,020 Senior Member
  • poetgrlpoetgrl Registered User Posts: 13,334 Senior Member
    First @mamalion thanks for that article. It's very clear.

    @3togo I appreciate that you are looking for a solution. The main thing I have to say is that until there was a strong push from victims of rape, and advocates of victims of rape, and the DOJ, nothing had changed vis a vis college rape in decades and decades.

    While I understand you believe you are elucidating a new position, the idea that women should not discuss rape culture is silly. Too many women are raped every year to see this as anything other than a cultural problem. If twenty percent of men could look forward to being raped, I'm sure we would see this as a massive cultural breakdown. Most women do.

    Read that article. It's very interesting.
  • collegealum314collegealum314 Registered User Posts: 6,768 Senior Member
    edited July 2014
  • austinareadadaustinareadad Registered User Posts: 671 Member
    With regard to this issue, I told my S, who will enter college this Fall, that so much of life is like a Rorschach test -- there are innumerable interpretations of events and experiences and the popular interpretations at any one time are a function of the then current trends. He may wish to interact mostly with other students who understand this and can look beyond the perceptual ruts they find themselves in, but the reality is that many of those he encounters will be governed by the popular trends and he needs to be aware of them.
  • ConsolationConsolation Registered User Posts: 23,020 Senior Member
    That is certainly true, austinareadad. But if I had a kid, particularly an S, heading off to college I would ask him or her to read the article mamalion posted and discuss it with me. In fact, I would do this with any HS kid.
  • austinareadadaustinareadad Registered User Posts: 671 Member
    Consolation, if this is turned into a war of men against women where men are "the bad guys" and the solution is for women to stay away from men, as the author of that article seemed to suggest, I am pretty confident that the future will be more horrible than almost anyone can imagine. I know it is popular to state that women don't need men, but I am quite sure that men do need women and they will break any rules they need to in order to make that happen. Also, only a complete lunatic thinks that men can be eliminated. The solution is to improve communication, restore trust, and repair the damaged relations between the sexes, and I just don't see enough people interested in doing that.
  • saintfansaintfan Registered User Posts: 8,274 Senior Member
    Did you read it all the way through to the conclusion? She says the very opposite of what you are suggesting.

    "Increasingly men are becoming good allies—and there always have been some. Kindness and gentleness never had a gender, and neither did empathy. Domestic violence statistics are down significantly from earlier decades (even though they’re still shockingly high), and a lot of men are at work crafting new ideas and ideals about masculinity and power.
    Gay men have been good allies of mine for almost four decades. (Apparently same-sex marriage horrifies conservatives because it’s marriage between equals with no inevitable roles.) Women’s liberation has often been portrayed as a movement intent on encroaching upon or taking power and privilege away from men, as though in some dismal zero-sum game, only one gender at a time could be free and powerful. But we are free together or slaves together."

    This sounds like "let's all be on the same team" to me.
  • alhalh Registered User Posts: 8,528 Senior Member
    Here I want to say one thing: though virtually all the perpetrators of such crimes are men, that doesn’t mean all men are violent. Most are not. In addition, men obviously also suffer violence, largely at the hands of other men, and every violent death, every assault is terrible. But the subject here is the pandemic of violence by men against women, both intimate violence and stranger violence.

    We have far more than 87,000 rapes in this country every year, but each of them is invariably portrayed as an isolated incident. We have dots so close they’re splatters melting into a stain, but hardly anyone connects them, or names that stain. In India they did. They said that this is a civil rights issue, it’s a human rights issue, it’s everyone’s problem, it’s not isolated, and it’s never going to be acceptable again. It has to change. It’s your job to change it, and mine, and ours.
  • ConsolationConsolation Registered User Posts: 23,020 Senior Member
    Yes, really, austinareadad, that was not my take-away from the article in the LEAST. I am the mother of a son and a humanist, and I certainly do not see men as enemies OR want to live without them.
  • poetgrlpoetgrl Registered User Posts: 13,334 Senior Member
    edited July 2014
    @austinareadad As I've said repeatedly on this thread, very, very few men are rapists. I love men, my daughters love men, my husband is a great partner and terrific father to his daughters. I have many male friends. Growing up I had more male friends than female friends. I do not think men are the enemy. Rapists are the enemy. Actually, they are the enemy of good men and women everywhere. But, again, most men are not rapists.

    I'm incredibly encouraged by the attitude of this younger generation. They really do seem to "get" that it's not men vs. women. They really are starting to understand that it is men and women together against those who would violate any of us: man, woman or child.

    Again, great article.
  • HuntHunt Registered User Posts: 26,918 Senior Member
    I was in England this week, and read an article that I thought shed some interesting light on this topic. Apparently, the conviction rate for rape cases has been declining recently in England. The Attorney General (or some equivalent title) said that he was concerned that if they brought more difficult cases to trial, the rate might decline even more. This brought a lot of criticism, with some arguing that even with a lower rate, there could be more convictions in total. But I think he makes a key point: if you bring a lot of cases with weak evidence to the tribunal, you are going to get one of two things: a substantial number of acquittals, or a substantial number of convictions of innocent people--actually, you could get both.

    This is part of what concerns me about using the "preponderance of the evidence" standard for college tribunals. That standard allows you to bring pretty weak cases to the tribunal, including cases in which there really is no evidence other than the testimony of the accuser and the accused. You can get a conviction if the members of the tribunal (perhaps just a majority of the members of the tribunal) believe one of them a bit more than the other.

    So what's going to happen? Are colleges really going to bring a lot of these low-evidence cases to tribunals? And if they do, how much confidence can we have in the outcomes? As we know, plenty of innocent people have been convicted of serious crimes in criminal courts with a much more stringent standard of proof and other protections. Often they have been people from disfavored social classes. (This was what I was referring to way upthread--in the south, it was not uncommon for black men to be convicted of raping white women on extremely flimsy evidence, especially if the defense was based on consent.)
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