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Is it common for high achieving students mostly go to state flagships?

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Replies to: Is it common for high achieving students mostly go to state flagships?

  • Sakacar3Sakacar3 Registered User Posts: 199 Junior Member
    UCBAlumnus,

    There are many great programs at or state schools. And yes, after freshman year, there is a huge drop-off, which leaves the brighter kids with their more committed peers.

    My comment was not to "diss" the programs, but rather to comment on the behavior and attitudes of high-performing students. They tend to apply in-state early and see the Honors programs as a way of distinguishing themselves from their less academic peers, who will also receive acceptances to the universities. They figure that the HC designation will help later, which it may, depending on the program.
  • Jarjarbinks23Jarjarbinks23 Registered User Posts: 769 Member
    @thumper1 I'm confused about the Ivy Leagues ad the merit aid question.... don't most ivy leagues largely discount tuition for those who can barely afford it?

    For example, take Columbia:

    "Parents with calculated incomes below $60,000 a year and typical assets are expected to contribute $0 towards their children’s Columbia education."

    And this topic wasnt to spark ideas for my essay. I just found it interesting how in my school, most students are obsessed with going to a "top-tier college" while in most other schools, it isnt uncommon for top students to go to their state flagship schools.
  • momofthreeboysmomofthreeboys Registered User Posts: 16,676 Senior Member
    Talk is cheap report back next December and tell us where your top 10 went. My kids' school district almost always send one or two out of state to an ivy or other highly selective small college but the rest can be found at UofM or MSU.
  • PizzagirlPizzagirl Registered User Posts: 40,488 Senior Member
    Jarjar, what part of the country are you from? In the Northeast, it is relatively less uncommon for high achieving students to want to go to the state flagship. (I said relatively, so don't everybody jump on me because they know one kid, blah blah blah). In the rest of the country, it is very common for high achieving students to want to go to the state flagship. Particularly in California, with a lot of good UC's to choose from, and in the Midwest with the B1G 10 schools.
    No one would blink an eye out here at a good student choosing U of Illinois.
  • Jarjarbinks23Jarjarbinks23 Registered User Posts: 769 Member
    edited November 2014
    @Pizzagirl I'm from California but I go to a private school, so at least for the top 25% (grade wise) of the students, they're focused more on going OOS and a good private school because they have the stats and can afford it.

    It's not uncommon for us to have a kid in the top 20% (not 10%) to go to a low-tier ivy or top tier liberal arts like Vassar, so thats why students at my school seem to gravitate more toward the private schools, usually OOS.

    And even kids in the lower percentiles want to go to a private school, but thats probably because they have the money, not necessarily the stats
  • cobratcobrat Registered User Posts: 12,285 Senior Member
    edited November 2014
    State universities have become the favorite of companies recruiting new hires because their big student populations and focus on teaching practical skills gives the companies more bang for their recruiting buck. Big state schools Pennsylvania State University, Texas A&M University and University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign were the top three picks among recruiters surveyed.

    U-IUC has long been a strong public university with some departments comparable or exceeding those of elite universities, a reason why it has long been a popular with recruiters...especially those from the engineering/CS/tech fields.

    Penn State and Texas A & M both have large and fiercely loyal wide-ranging alum networks along with campus culture bonding activities like successful Div I sports and A & M's Cadet Corps which likely played a role.

    State universities' size is also an advantage. A recruiter will expose his/her employer to a greater number of students at a huge state university, compared to a smaller Ivy League school or LAC. Of course, smaller schools may have particular concentrations of students that attract certain employers. For example, an employer looking specifically for engineering students may go to MIT or SDSMT, while a very school-prestige-conscious employer may go to super-selective schools.

    It also depends on whether the employer perceives a need to hire employees who meet a minimum level of perceived high academic stats/intelligence/work ethic and feels his/her recruiting efforts would be better spent with institutions with large critical mass concentration of such graduates as opposed to institutions where he/she may feel it is not worthwhile due to students falling all across a wider spectrum in those factors.

    In this, I'm not sure size is a factor so much as perceived average student academic strength of a given institution. Such employers may also be prestige obsessed, but not always necessarily so.

    In short, they may be just as willing to hire from schools like Columbia, Berkeley, UVA, UMich, Grinell, and Vassar as opposed to a lower-tiered private or public college with less competitive/open admission policies.

    Sometimes this perception is a product of past history along with employer prejudices for/against given academic institutions. Just a week ago, I chatted with a couple of CUNY undergrad/grad alums who recounted how much harder it was to get interviews, much less hired compared with friends and acquaintances who attended elite private or public colleges ranging from UPenn to UVA even though they had comparable/higher GPAs and more relevant working experience/internships. Another person at the hangout who happened to be a Brown alum concurred with them and admitted he had multiple interviews/offers largely due to the name of his undergrad alma mater.
  • Mom2aphysicsgeekMom2aphysicsgeek Registered User Posts: 4,499 Senior Member
    I'm confused about the Ivy Leagues ad the merit aid question.... don't most ivy leagues largely discount tuition for those who can barely afford it?

    For example, take Columbia:

    "Parents with calculated incomes below $60,000 a year and typical assets are expected to contribute $0 towards their children’s Columbia education."

    You are confusing terms. Merit aid is typically $$ awarded based on merit (GPA, test scores, community service, outstanding accomplishments). Some schools do connect merit $$ to financial need, but there are schools that don't. Ivy League schools do not offer much in merit $$. What you have described is financial need. It is strictly based on income/assets and not connected to merit. So kids that are very high achieving but have parents that make too much $$ to pay their expected family contribution (EFC which is what you determine by using a school's net price calculator) cannot attend schools leaving a gap between financial aid and cost of attendance.

  • shawnspencershawnspencer Registered User Posts: 3,110 Senior Member
    In some schools yes, in other schools no. For instance, my friend went to a school of 500+ where she was one of three students to go OOS (to W&M no less). The rest of the students all went to either a state flagship or a community college. It can be really eye-opening when you realize how different it may be in other areas of the country.
  • blossomblossom Registered User Posts: 9,591 Senior Member
    "Sometimes this perception is a product of past history along with employer prejudices for/against given academic institutions. Just a week ago, I chatted with a couple of CUNY undergrad/grad alums who recounted how much harder it was to get interviews, much less hired compared with friends and acquaintances who attended elite private or public colleges ranging from UPenn to UVA even though they had comparable/higher GPAs and more relevant working experience/internships. "

    Prejudice? Boy that's harsh (and not accurate).

    GPA's are hard to compare across institutions and I'd love hear what recent alums and undergrads consider "more relevant experience".


    Recruiting is not a random process by which a large bank or global chemical company or international consumer products company decides on the spur of the moment, "Hey, let's stop recruiting at Baruch because when the president is in town or when the UN leaders convene the traffic in midtown is terrible. Let's add a university in Florida so we can all combine the recruiting trip in December with a golf weekend".

    Believe it or not, there are actual numbers involved and facts on the table. When a school gets dropped it's usually for very good reasons- the yield has been declining for several years. Or the quality of the kids who want to interview has been declining for several years- a company used to get the strongest kids from the Chemical Engineering department, and is now getting C students from the undergrad business program. Or the last 10 kids who got hired for the management rotation program all quit within the first 6 months claiming the work was burning them out. Or of the 100 kids hired in the last three years, the pass rate for (fill in the blank- the CPA exam, Series 7, CFA, actuarial exams, etc) has been less than 50%. Companies track this stuff. Law firms hire young lawyers who start in August and September, but don't get their bar results into the winter. Why would a law firm continue to hire lawyers coming out of a law school with an abysmal pass rate? Why would a CPA firm continue to hire young accountants who struggle to pass the CPA exam?

    you think they don't track this stuff over time to refine their recruiting targets? More hires from the schools which better prepare their grads? Fewer hires from the schools with low standards or weak accreditation?

    When a school gets added it is similarly for good reasons, and again, with facts on the table.

    A bunch of 20-something kids sit around whining that they can't get interviews because of all those U Penn kids sucking up all the jobs- and you think this is how corporate America operates?????
  • cobratcobrat Registered User Posts: 12,285 Senior Member
    edited November 2014
    A bunch of 20-something kids sit around whining that they can't get interviews because of all those U Penn kids sucking up all the jobs- and you think this is how corporate America operates?????

    Actually, the Brown and one of the CUNY alums are early 30 somethings with around 10 or more years of professional working experience each. It's just the CUNY alum recounted it being much harder to get interviews and hired over the years.

    And sometimes, some employers can be prejudiced for/against certain academic institutions.

    I experienced this firsthand while interviewing at a financial institution in the Boston area where I knew the interview was going to go south within the first few minutes the moment the interviewer saw the name of my undergrad institution and made comments about it being a college full of "radical lefty protestors".

    Only consolation was later finding out that financial institution went under and closed its doors some years later.
  • blossomblossom Registered User Posts: 9,591 Senior Member
    And it's news that CUNY alums don't do as well as U Penn alums in the job market why exactly?
  • thumper1thumper1 Registered User Posts: 76,083 Senior Member
    I'm confused about the Ivy Leagues ad the merit aid question.... don't most ivy leagues largely discount tuition for those who can barely afford it?

    The Ivy Leaguemschools give need based aid only....they give NO Merit aid.

    And with an acceptance rate in the single digits, it's getting accepted that is the challenge. The generous financial aid does you no good if you are in the 90% plus who are rejected by these schools every year.
  • PizzagirlPizzagirl Registered User Posts: 40,488 Senior Member
    "And sometimes, some employers can be prejudiced for/against certain academic institutions.

    I experienced this firsthand while interviewing at a financial institution in the Boston area where I knew the interview was going to go south within the first few minutes the moment the interviewer saw the name of my undergrad institution and made comments about it being a college full of "radical lefty protestors"."

    If they were that prejudiced against it, they wouldn't have given you an interview in the first place. Anyway, ONE person made such a comment, which doesn't extrapolate to "employers" as a whole.
  • cobratcobrat Registered User Posts: 12,285 Senior Member
    If they were that prejudiced against it, they wouldn't have given you an interview in the first place. Anyway, ONE person made such a comment, which doesn't extrapolate to "employers" as a whole.

    Sometimes, when there is heavy demand for employees in certain industries, they may not be as selective about granting interviews. Secondly, as the interviewer and one of the senior partners of that firm, he was the face of that firm at the moment I was interviewed by him at the very least.
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 76,655 Senior Member
    edited November 2014
    It is also possible that the decision to bring a candidate for an interview was made by someone other than the interviewer. If the candidate talks to more than one interviewer, it is common that at most one of them had any say in deciding to bring the candidate in.
This discussion has been closed.