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BYU - So Upsetting Reading/Watching This

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Replies to: BYU - So Upsetting Reading/Watching This

  • awcntdbawcntdb Registered User Posts: 3,553 Senior Member
    edited May 2016
    Does anyone realize how illogical Post #119 actually is. Philosophically, not only does it contradict itself, it illustrates that people are using this as an issue to condemn religion when religion is not the issue here. And, it applies a condition to religion that the post itself is advocating not be applied. Absolutely clueless.
    In this case, for the young woman involved, the good news is that she has been offered admission to other universities. She has also served to make this a national issue.

    Make what a national issue? That an institution actually follows its own honor code and expects students who agree to the code, as a condition of attendance, to follow that code? I bet that there are more people than not who are saying "About time" that students are expected to live up to what they agree to. God forbid students are expected to be accountable for their actions.

    And that is the real issue - no matter how it is sliced the females broke rules themselves and not giving them a free pass because they were allegedly assaulted may make people feel sorry of them, but only people who want to make this about religion think it is a bigger case than that.
  • awcntdbawcntdb Registered User Posts: 3,553 Senior Member
    People and the government are looking at religiously affiliated universities in a much harsher light. That's good. You need look no further than the child abuse scandal affecting the Catholic and other churches to know that these institutions do not apply their values, principles and behavioural expectations universally.

    Note that the above reverses its own argument onto itself, thereby nullifying the argument entirely.

    The quote purports to chastise religious institutions for not applying "their values, principles and behavioural expectations universally" and argues that this means they should, legally, be put under a "harsher light."

    But, according to this argument. BYU should be applauded because under this "harsher light" BYU has shown to be doing exactly what the post chastises BYU and other religious institutions for not doing, i.e., applying "their values, principles and behavioural expectations universally."

    Under the "harsher light," the females, who violated the enrollment contract, are being held equally accountable for their failure to follow the honor code they agreed to, irrespective of what happened to them. We can safely assume the male student was held accountable because he is not even mentioned in the articles, thus he is no longer a student and mainly because the female student does not complain that he is still there.

    Therefore, both the male and the female students involved are being held equally to account for each's actions, which means that BYU is truly applying its "values, principles and behavioural expectations universally." Yet the post is upset at institutions by saying they do not apply values universally. The post is upset at the wrong school then because BYU is actually doing what the post is saying it is not doing.
  • awcntdbawcntdb Registered User Posts: 3,553 Senior Member
    edited May 2016
    People....are looking at religiously affiliated universities in a much harsher light.

    Which people?

    Oh, I can only assume it is the people who rather that schools and institutions "not apply their values, principles and behavioural expectations universally" and hold alleged female victims to a lower standard of adherence.

    It logically follows that the entire Post #119 actually is advocating that schools and institutions "not apply their values, principles and behavioural expectations universally," which it blames BYU for supposedly not doing, even though BYU is applying its values universally in these cases.
    ...the government [is] looking at religiously affiliated universities in a much harsher light.

    Completely fabricated meme.

    Which part of government is looking at religious schools in a harsher light? I must have missed that memo. If anything, it is going the other way.

    The controlling entity here, the SCOTUS, has steered away from having much to do with religious institutions, as it pertains to government imposing its values, and has protected them in the overwhelming majority of cases. In fact, when has a true religious liberty case been lost recently?

    -- The Hobby Lobby case in Obamacare - again the religious institution was not forced to comply with part of the law that it found to be against its religion.

    -- The Amish are to totally exempt from the Obamacare mandate on religious grounds.

    -- The Sisters of the Poor case currently at the SCOUTS will probably go the same way, the government cannot force them to supply something against their religious beliefs.

    -- At Bob Jones University, the government could not force it to repeal its ban on interracial dating. Who cares if the government pulled federal funding from the school, as not all people need or want to live off of government. (This never was worth getting to the SCOTUS, as the government had no real power over the religious institution - so much for the harsher light)

    I could go on, but I will stop there.
  • alhalh Registered User Posts: 8,528 Senior Member
    awc: Do you see any difference in a breach of the honor code or any rules when the breach harms only the individual, and when the breach directly harms another..... leaving out the idea not obeying rules may impact society negatively in the larger sense. Would you punish all those breaking the law equally? Regardless of offense?

    Maybe someone already asked you this question on this thread. The only other thing I want to post here is to ask whether anyone has pointed out some students may not be freely choosing BYU. Their parents may be choosing BYU for them.

  • exlibris97exlibris97 Registered User Posts: 1,039 Senior Member
    When you go to BYU, Liberty University or Oral Roberts University, you know what you are getting into.
  • momofthreeboysmomofthreeboys Registered User Posts: 16,676 Senior Member
    Yes you do. My kids have a friend who went to Liberty but ended up transferring. She liked the college but it wasn't for her
  • awcntdbawcntdb Registered User Posts: 3,553 Senior Member
    awc: Do you see any difference in a breach of the honor code or any rules when the breach harms only the individual, and when the breach directly harms another..... leaving out the idea not obeying rules may impact society negatively in the larger sense. Would you punish all those breaking the law equally? Regardless of offense?

    Of course not. I do not know anyone or any entity, which punishes equally all those breaking a rule. There are always conditions under which something is broken and the extent to which the rules are broken and how many times they have been broken. Similar to first time offenders (in legal courts) are not treated equal vis a vis habitual offenders re the same offense.

    I also think BYU behaves in this way. What has happened in this case is the female{s} in question wants zero punishment for her actions in light of her alleged rape. But, I see no indication BYU treats everything the same and punishes the same. I do see that BYU holds individuals accountable, at some level, for their actions. However, holding everyone equally accountable with same punishments for same offenses, I do not see.
  • exlibris97exlibris97 Registered User Posts: 1,039 Senior Member
    Religious sects are always interesting. Get involved with them and you pay the price.
This discussion has been closed.