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U Kentucky shifting away from merit aid

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Replies to: U Kentucky shifting away from merit aid

  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger Registered User Posts: 1,670 Senior Member
    *Because UKY is the flagship, by definition low stats kids, per KY standards, aren't admitted there.
    ^
    While UK aspires to be the flagship, its admission is not noticeably more selective than U of L. I'll end with that, before I get a debate society warning.
  • MYOS1634MYOS1634 Registered User Posts: 31,476 Senior Member
    ^true, but.. Kentucky's low-stats kids aren't attending either one.
    (And yes I realize average stats in KY are lower than in other states but relative to their pool).
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 62,899 Senior Member
    MYOS1634 wrote:
    ^true, but.. Kentucky's low-stats kids aren't attending either one.

    Anyone more familiar with Kentucky public universities able to say how much more difficult it is to get admitted to UK or UL versus EKU, KSU, Morehead State, Murray State, NKU, and WKU?
  • HannaHanna Registered User Posts: 14,210 Senior Member
    "If a school requires stats and expensive ECs to get in"

    If there are any schools that require expensive ECs to get in, I don't know about them.

    What schools do require is that low SES kids get competent counseling so that those kids know to talk about their hours caring for family, working minimum wage jobs, etc.
  • Gator88NEGator88NE Registered User Posts: 5,417 Senior Member
    edited February 10
    @ucbalumnus Here you go!

    http://www.collegeresults.org/search1ba.aspx?institutionid=157951,157289,157085,157447,157401,157386,157058,156620

    UK and UofL are about the same selectivity (based on test scores). The others are s step behind. For example, the average ACT scores at UK and UofL is 25, while at several of the other schools it's 22.

    Based on admit rates, several of the other schools have lower admit rates than UK and UofL.

    EDIT: by the way, schools like EKU offer several nice merit based scholarships to in-state schools. It's what makes these schools more appealing to some in-state students in the 25 to 30 ACT score range. For example, a student with a 3.5 HS GPA and a 28 on the ACT would be awarded a $6K a year scholarship (Regents) at EKU.

    https://scholarships.eku.edu/state-freshmen-0
  • MYOS1634MYOS1634 Registered User Posts: 31,476 Senior Member
    ^Also, WKU has a critical language flagship and a good honors college.
    UKY has revamped its honors college thanks to a gift though.
  • LOUKYDADLOUKYDAD Registered User Posts: 582 Member
    edited February 10
    "Anyone more familiar with Kentucky public universities able to say how much more difficult it is to get admitted to UK or UL versus EKU, KSU, Morehead State, Murray State, NKU, and WKU?"

    At some point in my life I have been on the campus of all of the above except KSU (which is or was a HBCU).

    Although UK is the flagship, you could definitely put UL in the same tier. Top 200 national research universities, Tier 1 research, admission stats similar (avg ACT 25), athletics programs, located in the two largest cities in the state. UL was historically much more of a commuter school but that has been changing.

    The other five you group together, once again very similar stats (avg ACT 22). In much smaller towns. Geographically dispersed so as to serve their region of the state. All have significantly lower COAs than UK. The top 25% of their student bodies are going to be the 25 to 30 ACT kids, and as Gator88NE pointed out they are all offering significant merit aid to that group (of the automatic guaranteed variety, half to full tuition), making these schools very affordable options for this group. This group isn't getting much of any help at UK presently. Their is a very significant cost difference right now for the 25 to 30 ACT kids. For this group the better financial deal is clearly at the directional schools as of today. If you want UK you have to pay up for it. If you don't want to pay up or can't afford to you go to one of the directionals.

    http://www.wku.edu/scholarship/beginningfreshmanscholarships.php
    http://www.murraystate.edu/admissions/scholarships/newfreshmen.aspx

    At these five directionals, the top 50% of their students are 22 to 30 ACT. A wide range of SES with this group. With these policy changes at UK, what you are doing is pulling the low SES kids from this group to UK, and sending the higher stats (31-36 ACT kids) out of state. You shrink the directionals or else take on more students who need remedial ed.

    Good policy for the state or not?

    Should mention that UL has a unique affordability option. If you work part-time for UPS they will pay your tuition plus at UL.

    http://metro-college.com/what-is-it
  • MassDaD68MassDaD68 Registered User Posts: 1,321 Senior Member
    @MYOS1634 Brings up a great point concerning micro loans. So many times we see students come on CC and say that money is tight and they will not be able to stay in school because they cannot meet the next semester costs. As with all lines in the sand there are going to be kids who fall short of paying the bill by $1K or $2K or less. My experience in college way back when was you NEEDED to have your bill paid by X date in order to begin studies. it was either fully paid or not. Simple. The damage comes when I student falls just sort of the line. Is it possible this kid only need a small boost to keep him on track? Is this a worthy endeavor for the school to assist with? Something for the philosophers to ponder.
  • Gator88NEGator88NE Registered User Posts: 5,417 Senior Member
    We should consider that we really don't know the "plan" yet. I'm assuming some of the need-based aid will be grants, given based on need, while other need-based aid will be done via more competitive scholarships, which will consider need and merit.

    The median household income in KY is $41,141 (which is about the same in Tennessee, Alabama, Louisiana, etc.). A grant of a few thousand dollars, may be enough to recruit middle class kids in the 25 to 30 ACT range. :)
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Registered User Posts: 62,899 Senior Member
    Gator88NE wrote:
    http://www.collegeresults.org/search1ba.aspx?institutionid=157951,157289,157085,157447,157401,157386,157058,156620

    UK and UofL are about the same selectivity (based on test scores). The others are s step behind. For example, the average ACT scores at UK and UofL is 25, while at several of the other schools it's 22.

    Based on admit rates, several of the other schools have lower admit rates than UK and UofL.

    It also looks like UK and UL are about $4,000 more expensive than the others, both in list price and net price (although the net price varies more among the others than the list price, presumably due to student family financial demographics).

    Of the others, it looks like WKU's graduation rate shows relative overperformance, since it is comparable to Murray despite lower incoming GPA and SAT/ACT, and higher than Morehead and NKU despite lower incoming GPA and SAT/ACT.
  • MYOS1634MYOS1634 Registered User Posts: 31,476 Senior Member
    ^It'd only make sense for UKY to do that if they figured it wouldn't dry the number of strong students while allowed more 25-30 students to attend thanks to better financial aid.
  • cosmonewmancosmonewman Registered User Posts: 17 New Member
    edited February 14
    Not true regarding Alabama regarding not offering needs based money. I was just on a financial aid webinar tonight.
  • Gator88NEGator88NE Registered User Posts: 5,417 Senior Member
    Of course Alabama offers need-based aid. However, it offers far more merit-based aid, while it's been increasing in-state tuition. This causes it to have a high net price, for lower income families (earning $48K a year or less).

    https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?s=AL&ct=1&ic=1&id=100751
  • LOUKYDADLOUKYDAD Registered User Posts: 582 Member
    edited June 23
    For those interested, here is a recent update by UK to their scholarship page:










    Award opportunities for freshmen entering in Fall 2018 (high school class of 2018) will be announced in early August 2017. Kentucky Governor’s Scholar/School for the Arts Scholarships will remain unchanged for Fall 2018 applicants. Please check the website in early August for other scholarship updates.















    Obviously still waiting on a lot of specifics on what is happening for the Patterson (guaranteed full ride for NMF only) and the Singletary (competitive with min 33 ACT). Interesting though no changes to the guaranteed Presidential full tuition (not full ride) for Governor Scholar kids with 31+ ACT. Governors Scholars is in state only, about a 1000 kids, but many of them don't have the 31+ ACT so they go elsewhere (other in state public with lower ACT threshold). But a decent portion of the 1000 do have the 31+ and a lot of them typically end up at UK. At DS high school the GSP kids with the 31+ typically go to UK and the under 31 end up going to U of L or WKU.











    This tells something about where the shrinking merit dollars will be spent. On in state kids versus out of state NMFs? To early to conclude that but that has been my guess. They may (and I hope) they keep the full ride for the in state NMF kids, even if they decide to discontinue for out of state NMFs. U of Louisville does it this way, so they wouldn't lose in state kids to U of L if they go this route.
  • acdaisyacdaisy Registered User Posts: 9 New Member
    I think they need to cross reference their lists while doing this. My DD has a 33 ACT, awards and honors out the wazoo, class officer, etc. and she wasn't even considered for any of the higher level scholarships. When I asked why, I was told it was because of the switch from merit to need based.

    That's the thing....we ARE need based! In fact, very need based. I feel cross referencing would have caught that.
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