Are More Selective Colleges More Academically Difficult?
Hi everyone. I'm a Dad of 3, the oldest is just starting her college search. I'm interested in your opinions about whether more selective schools are also more rigorous and academically challenging in the classroom.
I always figured this was sort of obvious - of course <insert highly selective school> will be more challenging to a given student than <insert less selective school>. This has led me to think that many kids will struggle if they attend the most selective school to which they are accepted (sidebar: if true this flies in face of much of the college admission machinery which seems largely concerned with getting a student into the most selective school possible for that kid... just my take).
I've made this point to a number of people and I'm surprised by how often the response is something along the lines of, "all colleges are equally difficult" or, "XYZ college is very hard to GET INTO, that doesn't mean it's any HARDER to excel once you enroll."
I get that I'm painting with a broad brush here but you see what I'm asking. I could definitely see this issue affecting how I coach my kids in their college search. Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
Replies to: Are More Selective Colleges More Academically Difficult?
For example...a student taking calculus someplace is likely to encounter a very similar level of difficulty. Ditto lots of other courses.
That said, I was a driven student. I double majored, I took honors classes, I engaged fully and deeply with the material. I went to office hours, I asked for extra reading, etc. Basically, I went above and beyond.
I guess I wouldn't go so far as to say that all colleges are equally difficult, but I think the differences are mostly smaller rather than larger. A driven student can get an excellent education at a wide variety schools.
Also, some schools have a range of options for some courses. Frosh/soph level math is a common example. Many colleges have the standard sequence of single variable calculus, multivariable calculus, linear algebra, and differential equations. But more selective colleges are more likely to offer honors versions (in a few cases, their only offerings are like honors versions elsewhere), while less selective colleges are more likely to offer lower level courses (e.g. calculus for business majors, math-light for graduation requirement) and/or remedial/developmental courses (e.g. precalculus). A large school with a wide range of students may offer both honors versions and lower level and developmental/remedial courses because the tails of its student range are large enough fill all of those courses.
My kids went to a competitive private U--S said there were some very brilliant people there but he did better there in his engineering GPA than he did in HS (which was a competitive private HS). Some kids thrive in competition while others fold under it.
Highly selective colleges/universities usually admit students on more than just their academic abilities, rejecting many students with 4.0 GPAs and a 35 or 36 on the ACT and, instead, admitting that lacrosse player with the 3.6 GPA and a 30 ACT. But I generally wouldn't desire to be that 3.5 GPA/27 ACT student attending where the average ACT is 33.
There are probably easy/hard majors and hard/easy classes at any college. At the selective school I attended, education was considered an easy major, for example. Some majors pride themselves on being the toughest majors on campus, and at my school that was physics.
Some elite schools have a real pressure cooker reputation, but not all do. Some schools take stress reduction seriously and others consider it a rite of passage.
There are kids working their tails off who are having the time of their lives at school. Others are glad to be somewhere where classes are more manageable, and there is more time for extracurricular activities or earning money. Your child needs to think about what they want before they can recognize a school that offers the right environment for them.
I know that my kid really gained a lot of insight when she got a chance to sit in on classes or talk to students individually or in a small group.
I'm not sure why the people you spoke to would think otherwise - maybe it's because students usually attend colleges that are at their academic level so even if you go to a less selective college, it will seem just as rigorous. But if they attended a more selective college, they could easily fall behind because the material, although similar at both colleges, would be taught at a much faster yet in-depth pace. It's like putting an average student into an honors program, basically. The material may be similar, but it's taught differently because the intelligence level of the student is different.
There's other support too.
Top Us really expect and want everyone to graduate and they devote substantial resources to making that happen. Some other colleges really don't. Tutoring, when available, can cost a small fortune. And it can be tough to FIND a good tutor.
A big difference though is that at some top colleges, the student doesn't have to come to the realization (s)he needs help himself. When the first assignments are handed back, profs or the graduate TA will TELL students they need help and how to get it.
Notable exceptions of colleges known for its high workloads in both quantity and rigor are MIT/Caltech/CMU, Harvey Mudd, Georgia Tech, UChicago, Reed, Swarthmore, Cornell(Engineering and A & S....especially natural sciences), etc.
And even then, it is very YMMV. For instance, none of my Cornell attending relatives...including one currently attending engineering or two others* majoring in a natural science...one as a pre-med felt it was very difficult/demanding. Same with most HS classmates. However, even they would admit they're aberrations rather than the norm.
* One recent graduate within the last year and another who's an MD.
I went against that recommendation and attended an LAC where my HS GPA placed me well within the bottom 25% or less of the admitted students. Even my father* was concerned enough to try dissuading me from accepting the admissions offer even with its FA/scholarship package which made it cheaper to attend than my local public colleges at the time.
I ignored all that and actually found the workload there to not only be manageable even with maxing out my semester load and working a part-time job, but the overall experience to be far easier than HS.
To this day, I still wished my HS academic rigor/pacing was like that I experienced in undergrad at that LAC or the graduate classes I took at an Ivy as it meant I wouldn't have been consigned to being the academic dunce in HS.
* My LAC was very well known and respected in my father's country of origin among the educated even when he was a young child in the '40s. .
YMMV. For instance, I know for a fact precalc was offered at Harvard and peer colleges....though not always for credit.
Also, Harvard offers different levels of intro math courses such as the famous/infamous math 55 course or stats*.
Incidentally, most colleges IME which explicitly offer honors courses separate from regular ones tended to be the less selective institutions though there are exceptions within the elite colleges as mentioned above.
* Harvard offered differing intro stats courses for math, engineering/pre-med/natural sciences, and Econ/everyone else. And they are counted for fulfilling graduate level stats requirements as I saw several grad students taking those courses to fulfill a skill requirement.