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Penn State fraternity and 18 of its members are charged in student's death

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Replies to: Penn State fraternity and 18 of its members are charged in student's death

  • prezbuckyprezbucky Registered User Posts: 3,513 Senior Member
    edited May 18
    uh, no. There are multiple reasons why that is a terrible idea and almost *can't* happen.

    - Fraternity members donate more of their time and money (to non-profits) than non-fraternity members (among males). The same can be said for sorority vs. non-sorority women, but nobody is clamoring for all sororities to be shut down, so...

    - Fraternity members fill more leadership positions (per capita) than non-fraternal members. Clearly, fraternity members are picking up skills that industry and government find valuable.

    - Freedom of association

    - Fraternity members make more donations to their schools than non-members.

    We only hear the negative stories. If you want to believe all fraternities are like this or are overall harmful, that's your prerogative, but you would be misled.
  • NASA2014NASA2014 Registered User Posts: 1,962 Senior Member
    If shutting farts mean academics frats too. Then so be it. Especially phi theta kappa.

    Why aren't there any academic frats that support students who's grades are below 3.0?
  • cobratcobrat Registered User Posts: 12,285 Senior Member
    edited May 18

    The tone and content of that letter to President Barron illustrates just how much the IFC and the organizations it represents just doesn't get it.

    This is a time for them to show contriteness and accept responsibility for their part/association with the Penn State greek community. Going the opposite and telling off the President and continuing to call for support from the Penn State community when the optics make it seem they've constantly taken that support for granted by the fact too many of their organizations continued the violations/criminal actions culminating in Piazza's death.....the amount of sheer chutzpah and gall is ridiculous....
    It’s that fraternities teach men that they must degrade women — and debase themselves — to cement their tough-guy bona fides"

    These are some of the things which repelled me about such organizations along with their notions of what actions constitute fulfilling prereqs for being a "tough guy".

    I don't know, but in my mind and in the society where my parents/grandparents came from, drinking oneself into oblivion and harassing/degrading women was considered a sign one was a weak overindulgent ne'er do well degenerate lacking self-control.....the opposite of being a tough guy.
    If shutting farts mean academics frats too. Then so be it. Especially phi theta kappa.

    Why aren't there any academic frats that support students who's grades are below 3.0?

    Possibly because their selection criterion on the basis of academic merit rather than social exclusivity/likeability/social status factors is much closer to the main mission of the university/college being an academic educational institution....
  • MomfromPA15317MomfromPA15317 Registered User Posts: 91 Junior Member
    @bester1 Two lines from the article that you shared stand out to me:

    "Yet he did nothing. Somehow, he convinced himself that "protecting" the institution by sweeping the issue under the rug was more important than protecting young boys."

    And

    "At the end of the day, the deadly culture of silence always starts at the top. The leader has to make clear that the institution has a primary responsibility for integrity, not just doing what is lawful (which may not have occurred here) but also for doing what is right (which almost surely didn't happen here)."

    These sentiments certainly apply to the Sandusky case, about which they were written, and what happened at Beta Theta Pi. It is evident that real leadership is lacking here and I agree that PSU deserves better.
  • cobratcobrat Registered User Posts: 12,285 Senior Member
    But they did have a "house parent" type figure there. He was affiliated with the school as a trainer.

    I find it extremely hard to believe he could have been asleep during a fraternity pledge activity where heavy forced binge drinking was involved.

    Most college students who drink heavily are very loud. It was a constant issue where a friend lived in the Boston area as he was smack dab in between two universities' frat areas.

    It was only after the Boston cops cracked down hard after numerous complaints that he and his neighbors didn't have to endure sleepless nights on accounts of those parties/initiation activities.

    This was also around the time several nearby bars which didn't enforce ID checks strictly(they accepted university IDs as if the possessor was 21+) were shut down by city authorities.
  • Sue22Sue22 Registered User Posts: 4,494 Senior Member
    I can't imaging any frat house is quiet on a consistent basis. Any resident probably has learned to sleep through a whole lot of noise.
  • philbegasphilbegas Registered User Posts: 2,922 Senior Member
    @cobrat maybe they were asleep because they got drunk too early and passed out lol.
  • HannaHanna Registered User Posts: 14,260 Senior Member
    "I wonder if bringing them back as a requirement would solve a lot of the problems we see at fraternities that are almost non-existent at sororities. Take dozens of young males living in a house together with no adult supervision, throw in alcohol, and you’re bound to have problems."

    Fraternities had house parents through their whole 20th-century history of hazing and carousing. Adult presence, in and of itself, doesn't mean anything. You need supervision, and with teeth: i.e., supervisors willing to call police and rat out the undergrads when necessary. That's not easy to maintain.
  • doschicosdoschicos Registered User Posts: 14,784 Senior Member


    "- Fraternity members donate more of their time and money (to non-profits) than non-fraternity members (among males). The same can be said for sorority vs. non-sorority women, but nobody is clamoring for all sororities to be shut down, so...

    - Fraternity members fill more leadership positions (per capita) than non-fraternal members. Clearly, fraternity members are picking up skills that industry and government find valuable.

    - Freedom of association

    - Fraternity members make more donations to their schools than non-members.

    We only hear the negative stories. If you want to believe all fraternities are like this or are overall harmful, that's your prerogative, but you would be misled."


    There are PLENTY of colleges and universities without greek life that manage all these aspects just fine - philanthropy, leadership, alumni donations. After a few years of griping from a small segment of students/alums, the frats would not be missed at all.
  • 10s4life10s4life Registered User Posts: 595 Member
    @Hanna Part of the stipulation for our house getting off University Probation was having a house mom. She helps us a lot.
  • greenbuttongreenbutton Registered User Posts: 2,328 Senior Member
    The IFC letter is appalling and very representative of their position over the years. It was sent to Pres Barron between the time Beta was banned for 3 years and permanently barred and the house vacated -- before charges were filed.

    I don't see any constructive changes left to make, and given IFC's lack of regard for other students, their ironclad insistence that THON washes all their sin away, and the perpetual belief that college life can't exist without frats, I think we've come to the end of this "modify the system" road. Just close them. Or most of them. Look at the students in the cases across the country --- do we really think more rules will help?

    The adult living at BEta is not an assistant athletic director. He's the assistant TRAiINER for the football team. Has been for such a long time that I expect he will retire this summer, quietly.

    I am profoundly disappointed in PSU. Clearly, they are going to stick with "not under our umbrella" which is technically, legally, true. Such a lack of backbone and innovation is a shame; it burdens all the great students who are a credit to the school. They deserve better from their admins, and from IFC.
  • HarvestMoon1HarvestMoon1 Registered User Posts: 6,039 Senior Member
    edited May 18
    The adult living at Beta is not an assistant athletic director. He's the assistant TRAiINER for the football team. Has been for such a long time that I expect he will retire this summer, quietly.

    @greenbutton: actually Bream was promoted to Assistant Athletic Director, Sports Medicine Support Services in March 2015. His current title appears to be Assistant Athletic Director, Athletic Training Services.

    ETA: I don't think he will survive this incident though.

  • greenbuttongreenbutton Registered User Posts: 2,328 Senior Member
    well, I stand corrected. But I don't think so, either. I certainly hope not.
  • bester1bester1 Registered User Posts: 975 Member
    If things go as they have at Penn State, he will be voted on to the Board of Trustees in just a few years.....and that is only a partial pun.

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