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Confederate battle flag fliers posted at American University

245

Replies to: Confederate battle flag fliers posted at American University

  • katliamomkatliamom Registered User Posts: 12,880 Senior Member
    That's one way to look at it, I suppose.... :(
  • doschicosdoschicos Registered User Posts: 20,403 Senior Member
    I think the dangerous thing with folks feeling free to fly their flags and such is it gives a voice and boldness to the racism which can manifest into more overt actions. We've seen evidence of that lately, IMO. I prefer the cockroaches to hide in the dark.
  • chippedtoofchippedtoof Registered User Posts: 263 Junior Member
    Ouch. It does put a damper on things as we are looking at a few Ohio schools. I know the schools, students, most residents are not "perturbed" like the flag flyers, but it does mean that people who don't know the lay of the land (like my S) may need a period of adjustment.

    The question I have is this: if we are indeed a nation divided philosophically, is the path forward really an all-out frontal war of "right vs wrong" or some mid-ground requiring sacrifice on both sides and a decision that the ultimate long term solution lies further out in the future? It seems now we're doing the former and it's splitting us apart.
  • alhalh Registered User Posts: 8,528 Senior Member
    edited September 2017
    I would prefer children not to have to see them.

    When I first moved out here around ten years ago, there were a very few very elderly folks flying flags and one very worn and faded Klan advertisement on the side of a barn. As these individuals passed away, their heirs took down the flags and several neighbors expressed to me how relieved they were to cover over that sign on Uncle's barn about five years back, almost immediately after his funeral.

    I had thought the flags were going to be gone in a few years. However, in the weeks following the Charleston massacre, flags went up. Young folks even put them on their trucks, not just decals, but poles flying flags, which I had never before seen. After Charlottesville more flags appeared.

    You can interpret that however you want. I know what I think it means.
  • doschicosdoschicos Registered User Posts: 20,403 Senior Member
    "if we are indeed a nation divided philosophically, is the path forward really an all-out frontal war of "right vs wrong" or some mid-ground requiring sacrifice on both sides and a decision that the ultimate long term solution lies further out in the future?"

    I think that is a valid and important question in a lot of areas but how can that be applied to racism? I'd argue it can't because where is the mid-ground on the issue?

    That's very depressing and sad to hear, @alh, and it enforces the opinion I expressed above in #17. :(
  • chippedtoofchippedtoof Registered User Posts: 263 Junior Member
    edited September 2017
    Yes, you're right re: racism. But I'd think you'd agree that no one likes to be told that what they've believed in for most of their life is evil, the example being confederate figures representing *some* semblance of admirable characteristics (along with reprehensible ones).

    Wouldn't a mid-ground position be something along on the lines of, ok the statues can stay, but please let the message be that it is kept because of the good things and not the bad. Everyone is human; no one is perfect. How one rises above one's imperfections is part of how one shows one's character.

    [edited to fix typo]
  • alhalh Registered User Posts: 8,528 Senior Member
    edited September 2017
    No - the statues can not stay.

    Even my 92 year old friend, and 88 year old friend, whose family backgrounds epitomize the "old south" say the statues can't stay. They are extremely proud of their grandchildrens' efforts toward the removal of the statues.

    Watching young parents bringing their children, on a sort of pilgrimage to the site, the day after a statue is removed is very moving to me. There is some good history being made around here lately. I really try to concentrate on that.
  • chippedtoofchippedtoof Registered User Posts: 263 Junior Member
    So no middle ground since the battlelines are purely on racist fronts?
  • doschicosdoschicos Registered User Posts: 20,403 Senior Member
    When you read about the history and context of when and why most of those statutes were erected, what are the "good things"? Sincerely interested in knowing.
  • alhalh Registered User Posts: 8,528 Senior Member
    edited September 2017
    I am not aware of a statue in a public space that was not erected for intimidation purposes. I am always happy to be corrected. I know the history of the statues we are taking down where I live now and the ones coming down in my childhood home town.


    Cemeteries, especially private family ones, are a diffent story. imho
  • chippedtoofchippedtoof Registered User Posts: 263 Junior Member
    Sorry, I can't elucidate any point due to my ignorance of the situation. I am not of the belief that some compromise situation can't be found but I have been wrong before. I have a family story that involves national discrimination against those with my background but things have moved on. At least there is hope for full reconciliation. For us here, its too polarized for me to feel the same way.
  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 Registered User Posts: 12,619 Senior Member
    “The vast majority of them were built between the 1890s and 1950s, which matches up exactly with the era of Jim Crow segregation.”

    http://www.history.com/news/how-the-u-s-got-so-many-confederate-monuments
    There are more than 700 Confederate monuments and statues on public property throughout the country, the vast majority in the South.

    The study identified 718 monuments. The majority (551) were dedicated or built prior to 1950. More than 45 were dedicated or rededicated during the civil rights movement, between the U.S. Supreme Court’s school desegregation decision in 1954 and the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. in 1968. The survey counted 32 monuments and other symbols that were dedicated or rededicated in the years since 2000.

    Many of these are memorials to Confederate soldiers, typically inscribed with colorful language extolling their heroism and valor, or, sometimes, the details of particular battles or local units. Some go further, however, to glorify the Confederacy’s cause. For example, in Anderson County, South Carolina, a monument erected in 1902 reads, in part: “The world shall yet decide, in truth’s clear, far-off light, that the soldiers who wore the gray, and died with Lee, were in the right.”
    https://www.splcenter.org/20160421/whose-heritage-public-symbols-confederacy#findings

    For intimidation purposes...I think that's clear.
  • alhalh Registered User Posts: 8,528 Senior Member
    edited September 2017
    A lot of the monuments from the 20s and 30s were funded either directly or indirectly by the KKK. Just pick one and start researching. You might want to research local lynchings during the same years. So far this has been an eye opening exercise for me.

    chippedtoof: A writer named Brendan Wolfe has a blog. You can search brendan wolfe lee monument to read an interesting analysis. It looks at history from a variety of angles.
  • chippedtoofchippedtoof Registered User Posts: 263 Junior Member
    edited September 2017
    Then, it feels like the path needs to be followed. I have no problem with that. The issue I'm having is that I don't see how there's reconciliation here... so we're just going to have to grin and bear the turmoil. A new president is not going to be able to stop this now.

    [Edit: thanks @alh will take a look. Appreciate the help :) ]
  • alhalh Registered User Posts: 8,528 Senior Member
    There is no chance of reconciliation with the Klan. This isn't a live and let live situation. imho.

    We can try and talk sense to them. I don't believe ridiculing them is at all helpful. It is very important to just keep speaking up. jmho
This discussion has been closed.