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Ethics of "Chancing" students

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Replies to: Ethics of "Chancing" students

  • collegedad13collegedad13 731 replies6 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 737 Member
    For example: "chance me for HYPSM?" Answer: "all reach."

    That is not always true. For some of the applicants the answer is clearly no way. And for some academic superstars and celebrities there is a greater than 50 per cent chance
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  • tutumom2001tutumom2001 1194 replies2 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,196 Senior Member
    ^^^ You have a zero chance if you don't apply. Our counselors are fairly good at encouraging kids to try while making sure that they understand that these schools ARE reaches for everyone. Not sure if they're on CC or not, but they give pretty much the same advice: have a well-rounded list that includes reaches and safeties.
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  • dfbdfbdfbdfb 3839 replies24 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 3,863 Senior Member
    She would have been miserable if she hadn't taken the chance and had to live with 'what if…'
    Why?

    That's a serious question.

    Have we gotten to the point that we're teaching kids not to be happy with positive outcomes for fear of missing out? Because that's what this claim makes it sound like, and while there's danger in swinging too strongly the opposite direction, that doesn't mean that such an outlook on life is even remotely healthy.
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  • yucca10yucca10 1119 replies34 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,153 Senior Member
    A student aiming for HYPSM should be able to chance him/herself after half an hour on CC. I agree that most of these posts are just to show off their achievements. But they can be useful for the rest of us.
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  • JHSJHS 18283 replies70 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 18,353 Senior Member
    In reality, I tend to have more than one or two types of reaction to "Chance Me" threads, although two certainly predominate:

    -- No way. (This, of course, is about 2/3rds of the kids.)
    -- There's a shot, but it will depend on everything happening right, plus luck. A few kids like this will get accepted.
    -- Standard good candidate. Who knows? Reach for everyone, etc. No reason not to apply. A decent number of kids like this will get accepted, why not this kid? (This is maybe 30% of the kids.)
    -- Oh, please! Go read about athletic likely letters, what they mean, and what it means if you can't get one. Then talk to the coach.
    -- Oh, please! Your mother is chair of the Psychology Department? Dean of Admissions? Go ask her.
    -- This is a really strong candidate. 50-50. Should not apply to only one "dream school." Should probably be more/less humble. Shouldn't re-take that 35 ACT.
    -- This kid will be accepted. (I don't have this reaction very often, but I'm batting 1.000 when I do.)

    It's pretty rare that I post what I think about an individual kid, though. Usually when I do, it's either because I can give some specific, constructive advice, and/or because there's something to say I think will be beneficial to other kids.
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  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 12391 replies228 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 12,619 Senior Member
    Do we generally agree that it is the job of the college/guidance counselor to lower expectations appropriately? The one in the article is concerned that students or parents think they are not using their magic wand for a kid if they try to talk a kid "down" from a reach, or reaches.
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  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 12391 replies228 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 12,619 Senior Member
    ^ Doubt that will ever happen on an ad-supported forum - "What Are My Chances?" is very popular in terms of views and posts.
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  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone 21930 replies14 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 21,944 Senior Member
    twoinanddone wrote:
    She would have been miserable if she hadn't taken the chance and had to live with 'what if…'

    Why?

    That's a serious question.

    Honestly? She's a miserable kid anyway. Never happy about herself. If she never applied, she would have been griping "But I know I could have gotten in!" and we would have had to listen to it FOREVER!

    She had good stats, but just not that something extra. She definitely was in the group of 80% of applicants who could do the work at Stanford but there just wasn't a reason to pick her over the other 10 applicants for that one spot. Most people who aren't on CC don't really get that. She's a kid sitting near the top of her class at a big public high school where a few students have gotten in to Stanford most years. Her view was "if they can get in, why can't I?"

    I look at my own kids. One had higher stats, is good in math and science and has figured out how to deal with the social sciences she's forced to take (and I swear part of her high scores on the writing part of SAT/ACT is that she has beautiful handwriting and writes in very direct, non-flowery language), but it is my average stat kid who is the more curious student, who wants to discuss literature and art and history. She's the kid the LACs and higher ranked schools should be looking for. If she would have applied to a school above her weight class, and an AO really looked at her application (past the gpa and scores), I think they would have found a gem. It would have been worth it to 'shoot for the stars' for her. At ONE school.

    She's very happy where she is and we didn't have the money to spend on lottery schools. Unlike my friend's Stanford reject, my daughter is always happy. She'd have been happy at almost any school.
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  • momofthreeboysmomofthreeboys 16613 replies66 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 16,679 Senior Member
    I don't like chance me threads because I think the kids can figure out on their own if they have a shot or not. Plus I just don't buy in to that incessant neediness that lasts for but a month or two at most with sone high school seniors after which no one really cares who goes where.
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  • CaliDad2020CaliDad2020 1009 replies3 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,012 Senior Member
    As per @DadTwoGirls - my feeling is any grown adults posting in "chance" threads should be doing something like:
    1) encouraging the student to confirm that their schools are financially viable for the family
    2) encouraging the student to deep dive into the school selection process and make sure they are making a choice based on their needs/desires and not some perceived "prestige"
    3) encouraging students to seriously research the schools they really are interested and using that information to put together the most competitive applications they can.

    I know ad coms at top high schools who every year for 10+ years now see 100 or 200 students apply, get accepted and rejected from colleges all over the country, and even they don't always have a great sense of how the application process will turn out for a given student.

    Anyone who thinks they can accurately chance a student from their CC stats (except in the case of obvious safties) is fooling themselves and the student.

    I do think most of the "no chance" or "you're in" responses are other students. Anyone who has actually watched a kid or two go through this process know how capricious competitive school admissions is.
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  • austinmshauriaustinmshauri 8426 replies305 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 8,731 Senior Member
    Do we generally agree that it is the job of the college/guidance counselor to lower expectations appropriately?

    Not at all. In our public school GCs are overworked trying to keep up with their primary responsibility, which is to help our students navigate high school and get a diploma. We aren't paying them to be college counselors or adcoms.
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  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 12391 replies228 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 12,619 Senior Member
    @austinmshauri - but the GC in the original article IS a college counselor. At a private school.
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  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 12391 replies228 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 12,619 Senior Member
    His job as he sees it is twofold:
    One is being a cheerleader for students, encouraging them to pursue their dreams.

    The other is serving as adviser, being a voice of reality that makes sure they plan as well as dream.
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