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Fraternity controversy at Swarthmore

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Replies to: Fraternity controversy at Swarthmore

  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus 85032 replies758 threads Senior Member
    10s4life wrote:
    Why would Swarthmore allow an unrecognized fraternity to exist as a registered student org for so long beats me.

    Not sure why it is that unusual for a fraternity that has one chapter to exist.
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  • Leigh22Leigh22 1144 replies9 threads Senior Member
    Obviously not all all Greek members are “bad”. My main issue when I read all these stories is the complete lack of empathy or common sense or whatever. How were you raised that you can watch someone in obvious distress and not seek help? Why do these kids not have each other’s backs? And how the heck do adults then defend the behavior?
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  • Leigh22Leigh22 1144 replies9 threads Senior Member
    Wow - thanks for the link @mamalion
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  • TheBigChefTheBigChef 710 replies6 threads Member
    "Can you name another campus group with 30 hazing deaths in the last 5 years?"

    Maybe not from hazing, but not uncommon to hear about deaths related to college football (someone dropping dead during training camp etc ...). Plenty of other bad stuff too (brain injuries, paralysis etc ..). Not uncommon to hear about rapes, sexual assaults, and other crimes committed by college football players either. Most of the time, these crimes are committed by individuals who would never have stepped foot on campus but for their athletic talent.
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  • tutumom2001tutumom2001 1218 replies3 threads Senior Member
    At one LAC I know without frats, some athletes do live together in suites, and have parties there. But it's not their entire building (with an *attic*) and it's not anything "regular" students don't have.

    When I went to Big SEC Party School with Awful Greek Life, I went to several parties at small LACs that could out-party us easily. The behavior doesn't begin and end at campuses with fraternities. Some people just have a snobbish perception that LACs are somehow more intellectually superior to state schools and that the behavior just couldn't possibly happen there. It's similar to parents who send their kids to Catholic schools because they think they are better behaved than kids who go to public schools.
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  • EyeVeeeEyeVeee 783 replies7 threads Member
    edited May 2019
    "Can you name another campus group with 30 hazing deaths in the last 5 years?"
    How about Football?

    There are around 75,000 students playing college football each year, with an average of 2 deaths per year. There are 9,000,000 greeks on US campuses with 6 deaths per year. Assume 25% of the greeks pledge each year, That means you are 10 times more likely to die playing college football than you are to pledging a frat.

    Should we discuss the long term effects on those participating?
    edited May 2019
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  • Leigh22Leigh22 1144 replies9 threads Senior Member
    But the football deaths aren’t hazing.
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  • EyeVeeeEyeVeee 783 replies7 threads Member
    edited May 2019
    Football deaths are worse than hazing. They now represent a significant socio-economic diversity that is akin to the Christians and the lions. Football players are disproportionally low-income compared to other areas of campus. The wealthy watch while the less fortunate risk their health for a chance at being wealthy.

    The wealthy, who appreciate the long term impact of head trauma have left pop warner football. To offset the pipeline losses, the NFL has actually sponsored programs in low-income neighborhoods.

    http://www.nflfoundation.org/applications/programs/view/grassroots

    The point is: if you're looking to make college safer, I can give you a place to start that's much more dangerous than the frats.
    edited May 2019
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  • 10s4life10s4life Forum Champion UCLA 2515 replies53 threads Forum Champion
    @doschicos Honestly doesn’t sound very good to me.
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  • OHMomof2OHMomof2 13238 replies247 threads Senior Member
    edited May 2019
    Football players at the Ivies and elite D3s are generally high income, though not perhaps on par with the sailing and polo etc athletes.

    Football is deadly for a reason with no connection to hazing, CTE.

    But athletic teams definitely have problems with hazing too, and in the case of Swat, the fraternity and the athletic team were basically the same people.
    @tutumom2001 When I went to Big SEC Party School with Awful Greek Life, I went to several parties at small LACs that could out-party us easily. The behavior doesn't begin and end at campuses with fraternities. Some people just have a snobbish perception that LACs are somehow more intellectually superior to state schools and that the behavior just couldn't possibly happen there.

    I have no idea if this was directed at me but trust me, I'm well aware that LAC kids can party like anyone.

    My point was, if they aren't in a frat, they don't get an entire house of their own to do what they want to in, away from the eyes of the administration and non-frat students. A dorm is a different animal and things can be more controlled there. LAC or Uni, it doesn't matter, it's partly a question of having a house or not.
    edited May 2019
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  • EyeVeeeEyeVeee 783 replies7 threads Member
    Ask anyone to tell you ONE story about their time in college.....it won't be about a lecture or exam.

    I think we need to be careful we don't try to over-structure everything that people learn as they become independent adults. I honestly think colleges are too strict with alcohol policies, which results in pre-gaming and binging.
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  • twoinanddonetwoinanddone 25366 replies21 threads Senior Member
    ^^ And there are schools that give you that option. Why can't other schools offer football and greek life?
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  • EyeVeeeEyeVeee 783 replies7 threads Member
    edited May 2019
    Football players at the Ivies and elite D3s are generally high income, though not perhaps on par with the sailing and polo etc athletes.
    Not true.

    The socio-economic backgrounds have shifted in the past 10 years. Rich kids don't play football.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook/2019/01/27/wealthy-parents-are-shying-away-from-football-but-not-from-low-concussion-sports/#644a61987ddf

    My prediction: The Ivy League and NESCAC will end their football programs by 2030.

    EDIT: The removal of the football teams has the added "benefit" of reducing the Title IX requirements, dramatically reducing the financial burden of athletic programs and allowing selective schools to be even more selective with their admission requirements.
    edited May 2019
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  • 57special57special 717 replies16 threads Member
    edited May 2019
    S1 visited Swat and attended a Frat(tends to be allied with the baseball team, I think?) party. He ultimately chose not to go to the school, but he thought they were very low key, smart and normal. Had a nice chat/tour with a frat member and his GF. He didn't get misogynistic, racist (S1 is mixed race), or big time party vibes(S1 doesn't drink), at all.

    One of the reasons that he didn't attend the school, even though it was a fit in many ways, is he thought the vocal activist minority was over the top. He comes from a large public with a liberal profile(was the target of a scornful Newt Gingrich article) , so he's no stranger to LW activism, but Swat seemed OTT.

    The other reason he didn't go was that he thought that this small D3 school known for it's rigor and political activism would have a less than competitive baseball team. The next year they went to the D3 World Series. Ha!

    I have no idea what is going on there, in general. Just don't think of Swarthmore when I think of out of a school with out of control frats. I mean, it's essentially U of Chicago that's been in the dryer too long. The place is a study gulag. Who has time to party?
    edited May 2019
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  • doschicosdoschicos 27022 replies274 threads Senior Member
    Folks, this isn't a thread about football. Feel free to start another thread to discuss it.
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  • EyeVeeeEyeVeee 783 replies7 threads Member
    sorry...it's the damn concussions.
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