right arrow
Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04

"How New York’s Elite Public Schools Lost Their Black and Hispanic Students"

12346»

Replies to: "How New York’s Elite Public Schools Lost Their Black and Hispanic Students"

  • privatebankerprivatebanker 5017 replies64 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 5,081 Senior Member
    The Asian families didn’t come here with bags of money. Let’s look at why they have incomes twice as high. In sweeping generality only, it appears to me there is a educational focus, strong family structure and reliance, and a level of commitment to lift the next gen on their shoulders. Tough to conclude to say it’s broad based discrimination.
    · Reply · Share
  • websensationwebsensation 2058 replies37 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 2,095 Senior Member
    edited June 23
    My parents (Asians with elementary and high school education) came to USA legally on nurse immigration long time ago with debts (borrowed from richer relatives and friends to pay for immigration process). My mom worked at nursing home in USA several years to pay back the debts prior to working at a supermarket, while my dad drifted from janitorial job to taxi driver. Because we were poor, I received nearly free education at an Ivy to which I was admitted, largely based on my SAT score and sports ECs, went to law school and set up my own business. Did well enough to retire before 50 and then now sending my kid to a private college as a full pay.

    As @privatebanker noted, our family came here with debts and less than $2,000, but some of other Asian families I know came with enough money to buy a decent house but the parents all sacrificed something, i.e., their social status, better jobs and family and friends contacts when they immigrated to USA; and almost all of them worked in jobs that were a step down considering their education level. Most of them who made good money in US did so by owning businesses, such as grocery store, gas stations, deli stores, fruit stores etc. and working 70 to 80 hours per week.

    I am the first to say that I owe everything to my mom (now deceased) who sacrificed everything for her children, and one of the consolations I have is I bought her a nice house and car with the money I earned. Most of Asian families who immigrated long time ago are similar to our own story, except for the fact they probably graduated from colleges unlike my own parents who graduated from only elementary and high school.

    For what it's worth, I plan to leave some money when I die to some public college (even though I went to a private college) to be used as a scholarship money for poor students even though I hated schools. I am just not an academic type but who don't mind figuring out things on my own.
    edited June 23
    · Reply · Share
  • brantlybrantly 3731 replies66 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 3,797 Senior Member
    Alternatively, I think a better solution is to make these tests untimed for everyone (or double time for everyone).
    THIS! I've been saying this for years! Whatever the time limit is now, double it for everyone. Period. That will save tons of money for parents who jump through all sorts of hoops to get accommodations. It will relieve test centers of extra administration. It will eliminate the problem of people trying to work the system. It would be kind of like a universal basic income. Everyone gets the benefit. Nobody has to apply. We eliminate a lot of administrative costs.
    · Reply · Share
  • hebegebehebegebe 2657 replies37 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 2,694 Senior Member
    You are talking about wasting a lot of people's time in order to benefit what should be be a small percentage. This time is valuable, and once wasted, can't be gotten back.
    · Reply · Share
  • oldmom4896oldmom4896 3826 replies285 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 4,111 Senior Member
    @hebegebe it's not like the students have to stay to the end of the double time period. The test is given once a year.
    · Reply · Share
  • STEM2017STEM2017 4027 replies94 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 4,121 Senior Member
    @oldmom4896 The tests are given one section at a time. Test takers would need to stay for most of the double time, unless someone can come up with a creative solution.
    · Reply · Share
  • mom2andmom2and 2755 replies17 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 2,772 Senior Member
    Tests are timed for a reason. A student that knows the material well is likely able to answer the questions more quickly than one that does not (LDs not included). Should one kid have 6 hours to do a test that is designed to last one hour? There are kids that legitimately need more time and who have processing speed issues. It is equally true that poor kids of color are much less likely to be identified as having LDs than wealthy white kids. It is also unclear how the added time is determined. Every kid with xyz LD gets an extra hour?

    I remember a neighborhood kid who had pretty significant ADD hyperactive. He had previously gone to school in an urban area and was not diagnosed there. Not until he came to a "good" school was he IDed. And that was a white kid with educated parents.
    · Reply · Share
  • brantlybrantly 3731 replies66 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 3,797 Senior Member
    @hebegebe Students would be free to leave when they are done! It can be organized like this: Everyone gets 10 timed minutes extra (more than what it is now) for each section. After all sections have been completed and timed, students get unstructured time during which they can go back to whatever section they want until the double time runs out.
    · Reply · Share
  • mom2andmom2and 2755 replies17 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 2,772 Senior Member
    The reality is if the test were twice as long, the test makers would make it longer and harder as their goal is to differentiate among the students. There is an advantage to a student that is a quick reader and processor in a school setting when the teacher needs to impart a lot of information in a short amount of time.

    It is also really hard for some kids to sit for that long a period of time or to have long periods with nothing to do.

    Unless no breaks are given, including bathroom breaks, I don't think the testers would allow kids to go back to a section after it is finished.
    · Reply · Share
  • oldmom4896oldmom4896 3826 replies285 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 4,111 Senior Member
    When my daughter took the test in the fall of 2010, students got the whole thing and although the sections were in a certain order, they could decide where to start and where to finish and go back and forth. Indeed, one of the benefits of test prep was learning that that was the case--that you didn't have to start with the first part in the test booklet.

    It was a pretty long test, maybe 4 hours IIRC and there were 3 sections. I know it was redesigned a couple of years ago and one section was eliminated and replaced by something else, but I don't know how it's administered now. I will try to look it up.
    · Reply · Share
  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger 2669 replies138 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 2,807 Senior Member
    edited June 24
    mom2and wrote:
    Tests are timed for a reason. A student that knows the material well is likely able to answer the questions more quickly than one that does not (LDs not included). Should one kid have 6 hours to do a test that is designed to last one hour? There are kids that legitimately need more time and who have processing speed issues. It is equally true that poor kids of color are much less likely to be identified as having LDs than wealthy white kids. It is also unclear how the added time is determined. Every kid with xyz LD gets an extra hour?

    I remember a neighborhood kid who had pretty significant ADD hyperactive. He had previously gone to school in an urban area and was not diagnosed there. Not until he came to a "good" school was he IDed. And that was a white kid with educated parents.

    There's no rational way to determine who gets extra time and how much. How do you determine xyz LD gets an extra hour instead of an extra three or an extra six, other than pulling a number out of the air? Why would every kid with the same LD get the same amount of extra time? Some LDs have a large spectrum of severity. If a kid's LD is effectively managed through drugs and other treatment, such that they behave normally, should they get extra time? Should the amount of extra time be personalized based on the individual student's medical history? The whole system is unworkable. It would be far better to get rid of time limits entirely for the tests and make the questions harder like the IMO.
    edited June 24
    · Reply · Share
  • oldmom4896oldmom4896 3826 replies285 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 4,111 Senior Member
    Ok I looked it up. It has 2 sections now and students have 3 hours. There are no restrictions as to what order students answer the questions.

    https://smartalec.com/blog/the-2018-shsat-guide
    · Reply · Share
  • STEM2017STEM2017 4027 replies94 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 4,121 Senior Member
    @oldmom4896 You are correct and I am incorrect.

    SHSAT test takers are given 180 minutes and may use them as they please between the two sections.
    · Reply · Share
Sign In or Register to comment.

Recent Activity