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"How New York’s Elite Public Schools Lost Their Black and Hispanic Students"

ucbalumnusucbalumnus 82789 replies738 threads Senior Member
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/03/nyregion/nyc-public-schools-black-hispanic-students.html

From 1976 to 2014, black + Hispanic enrollment:

Stuyvesant: 14% to 4%
Brooklyn Tech: 50% to 14%
Bronx Science: 23% to 9%

The following suggests possible causes:
For years, most who took the admissions test had little to no preparation. Today, test prep is a rapidly expanding local industry. At the same time, many accelerated academic programs in mostly black and Hispanic neighborhoods have closed as Asian immigrants have embraced the specialized high schools as tickets out of poverty.
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Replies to: "How New York’s Elite Public Schools Lost Their Black and Hispanic Students"

  • TanbikoTanbiko 368 replies2 threads Member
    "At the same time, many accelerated academic programs in mostly black and Hispanic neighborhoods have closed as Asian immigrants have embraced the specialized high schools as tickets out of poverty."

    So NYT is now blaming Asian immigrants for closure of accelerated academic programs in mostly minority neighborhoods?
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  • TheBigChefTheBigChef 710 replies6 threads Member
    It's not just URM's who have been displaced by Asians. In 1970, 79% of the enrolled students at Stuyvesant were Caucasian. Today it's around 21%.
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  • BKSquaredBKSquared 1601 replies8 threads Senior Member
    @kiddie is right on point. DeBlasio is taking the politically expedient route by trying to force equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity, which would require fundamental and difficult changes in how NYC educates kids, especially in the lowest performing districts, starting in elementary school. Easy to declare victory when the outcome that is measured is preordained!
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  • brantlybrantly 4228 replies75 threads Senior Member
    It's not just URM's who have been displaced by Asians. In 1970, 79% of the enrolled students at Stuyvesant were Caucasian. Today it's around 21%.
    And a great proportion of those 79% were Jewish. The specialized high schools used to be almost the exclusive realm of the Jews. Now, not so much. As you said, that demographic is found in schools like Beacon and ElRo.
    Take the SHSAT which only fed you into 3 schools: Stuyvesant, Bronx Science and Brooklyn Tech 4) Take a test to try to get into High School for the Performing Arts (school from FAME), which is now called Laguardia. So for those of us who didn't have rich parents, the SHSAT was a ticket out for us who didn't want to have to get into fights every day at school. Also keep in mind there were really only 4 schools ALL the smart kids could go to.
    You forgot Music & Art (before it merged with Performing Arts into LaGuardia) and Hunter College HS, which is public but not part of the DOE.
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  • TheBigChefTheBigChef 710 replies6 threads Member
    "So for those of us who didn't have rich parents, the SHSAT was a ticket out for us who didn't want to have to get into fights every day at school."

    There was also the Catholic school option. These schools weren’t free (except for Regis), but were much more affordable than places like Horace Mann and Dalton.
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  • brantlybrantly 4228 replies75 threads Senior Member
    Also, private NYC schools in the 1970s (IDK about '80s; I graduated in 1977) were not that expensive as a percentage of income. Regular, prosperous-but-not-wealthy people sent their kids to private schools like Dalton, Walden, Ethical Culture, Calhoun, Fieldston, etc. A two-teacher family could send their kids to private school.
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  • TheodenTheoden 252 replies7 threads Junior Member
    edited June 2019
    @brantly Yes I forgot Hunter Junior College High School and HS! Indeed, I applied to the JHS but didn't get in. Went to Mark Twain and then Stuy ;-)

    @TheBigChef Yeah - I'm not factoring in the affordable Catholic Schools. I had friends who went there. (St. Athanasius and Bishop Kearney near my elementary school)
    edited June 2019
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  • zoosermomzoosermom 25663 replies594 threads Senior Member
    Theoden, I'm a parent of three kids who went to school in NYC, one of whom was a "one-percenter" in her year and was admitted to Stuyvesant and Bard. I agree with everything you said except the part about Bard not having a test. It does. It's not like the SHSAT test, but there is an assessment given that is part of the admission process, and it is a serious exam.

    One thing I think you missed is the rise of amazing programs in the individual high schools, which are allowed to choose their own admissions criteria. There are some that admit based on a test, as well. Some of those programs, which are often very unique and specialized, attract students of all races who would otherwise have applied to SHSAT schools. As I said on the other thread, for many talented students, the SHSAT schools are not anywhere near the best options available.
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  • brantlybrantly 4228 replies75 threads Senior Member
    edited June 2019
    Theoden wrote:
    5) Private schools increasingly are offering scholarships to very bright and promising African American and Hispanic students who might have ended up at a specialized high school.
    Yes. I've said this before and someone responded, in effect, that this was crazy-talk. But I think it's obvious that any economically disadvantaged AA or Hispanic or other URM who has the chops to score high enough on the SHSAT to make Stuy et al. would be in the running to get a full ride at any of a number of elite NYC independents and east coast boarding schools -- most of which are way more diverse than Stuy and offer greater opportunities.
    edited June 2019
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  • zoosermomzoosermom 25663 replies594 threads Senior Member
    es. I've said this before and someone responded, in effect, that this was crazy-talk. But I think it's obvious that any economically disadvantaged AA or Hispanic or other URM who has the chops to score high enough on the SHSAT to make Stuy et al. would be in the running to get a full ride
    This was absolutely the case in my son's prep school, which was much more diverse than the SHSAT schools, and the alumni went on to wonderful colleges. It was our experience that the prep school community was much more welcoming and inclusive than the SHSAT schools.
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  • oldmom4896oldmom4896 3989 replies292 threads Senior Member
    @zoosermom I disagree that it is a good system. It is COMPLICATED, with some schools giving preference by borough, some by local school district within the NYC school system, some by individual tests, some by a distribution ("Educational Option schools use the English Language Arts (ELA) state test scores from 7th grade and identify the top 16% of scores, the middle 68%, and the lowest 16%. Half of the students who gain admission to an Ed Opt school will be matched based on their rank of that school, while the other half will be selected randomly"), a zillion little schools with fewer than 500 students, a zillion smaller programs within bigger schools that have to be listed individually, some parts of the city with zoned schools, some without. In the fall, parents in the know sit at their computers waiting for the opportunity to sign up for oversubscribed tours of different schools. Sure, I navigated the system for my daughter, but I know many, many kids whose parents could not begin to figure it out and had guidance counselors who were overwhelmed.

    I posted a flow chart to my Facebook page in 2014 (after my daughter graduated) that spells it out. Unfortunately I can't find the source to post here.
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  • yikesyikesyikesyikesyikesyikes Forum Champion U. Michigan 1901 replies136 threads Forum Champion
    edited June 2019
    @brantly

    I would be careful of calling the most of the east coast boarding schools more diverse than Stuy. Perhaps geographically, but almost certainly not socioeconomically. Racially, it could be a toss up depending on how one quantifies racial diversity.

    Of course, data for all this is incredibly limited since Private (independent) schools have much lower reporting obligations.
    edited June 2019
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  • zoosermomzoosermom 25663 replies594 threads Senior Member
    I disagree that it is a good system. It is COMPLICATED,
    @oldmom4896 I don't think I've ever called it a good system. I've called it all sorts of names, but never good.

    The system is wretched. Monstrous is the word I believe I usually use.

    I do, however, believe we have wonderful options that are lost in the fuss about the SHSAT schools, which I don't believe to be any better than many other programs.
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  • TheodenTheoden 252 replies7 threads Junior Member
    @brantly I guess the question is, how many more African-American and Hispanic kids are in these elite schools now compared, let's say to the 1980's? My guess is the numbers have gone up. In any case, all these schools have somewhere between 5-15% African American and Hispanic students. Add all these schools up, and I'm guessing a signficant number might be in the Specialized NYC high schools. Not sure.
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