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On the First Amendment - Indiana (IU) Kelley

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Replies to: On the First Amendment - Indiana (IU) Kelley

  • EconPopEconPop 349 replies6 threads Member
    edited November 22
    I respect UI's decision to retain the professor as a defense of the 1st Amendment. Of course, we all know (hope?) his retention has more to do with the legal ramifications of firing the professor, more than the actual 1st Amendment.

    Regardless, because of his continued employment at IU, none of my children (2 females, all URMs) will consider IU as a suitable destination. I'm sure IU will not suffer from my family's decision.
    edited November 22
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  • LindagafLindagaf 9524 replies511 threads Senior Member
    Wow. That’s something. The Indiana statement is excellent, but it also sounds like they had no choice.
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  • NhatrangNhatrang 354 replies1 threads Member
    Sure, he can't be fired for his view, but what about his performance? If an employee can't do their job properly (required another professor to help with grading), he performed below expectation. If it takes more than 1 persons to do a 1 person's job, that's enough ground for under performer.

    I think there is an easy solution here - document everything that he did wrong to the students based on his view, then fire the guy. Because if the school doesn't do this, the students whose grades were negatively impacted by the guy could easily sue the school.

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  • homerdoghomerdog 5387 replies101 threads Senior Member
    Holy cow! We don't have a horse in this race but our high school sends a ton of kids to Kelley. I wonder if this will be the hot discussion around town. And I agree with @Nhatrang that, if he needs a second person to grade his students' work, then he's not performing his duties. I hope no kids sign up for his classes. That would be a fabulous result.
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  • OhiBroOhiBro 372 replies6 threads Member
    As usual, when someone like this professor makes statements that don’t fit nicely into the PC culture, there is an attempt to destroy him rather than engage and debate on the rationale for his viewpoints.

    I would bet money that he hasn’t preyed on students like so many other professors do, without so much as a slap on the wrist.
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  • younghossyounghoss 3168 replies18 threads Senior Member
    In a broad sense, if I am understanding this correctly, a Prof with views many disagree with, and beyond that, may have affected student's grading, is considered acceptable to keep on the payroll. But a visiting speaker with views some may disagree with can be shouted down, or disinvited?
    Looking at the broader pic, do schools see a horrible inconsistency here?
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  • RichInPittRichInPitt 1308 replies19 threads Senior Member
    I don’t think it’s horribly inconsistent to treat actual employees different than outside visitors - happens all the time in many, many ways.

    There is a ton of employment law and probably an employment contract. I doubt there is anything close for an invited guest.


    Regardless of feelings on the person’s opinions, this arguement doesn’t hold water.
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  • maya54maya54 2236 replies91 threads Senior Member
    edited November 22
    The first amendment simply is the trump card here. The universities hand are tied. To me they have done everything they legally can at this point. If they find evidence that the prof used bias in grading that’s another story. But as of now they absolutely cannot fire him. Nor could any public university.
    edited November 22
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  • maya54maya54 2236 replies91 threads Senior Member
    “A bigoted white guy with an air-tight contract. What are the odds?”

    The contract is the least of it. It’s the First Amendment that keeps the university from even having a contract that would let him be fired.
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  • MomofWildChildMomofWildChild 22822 replies192 threads Senior Member
    If you think Indiana is the only university with one or more faculty members with distorted viewpoints, I have some bad news for you. Eliminating a fine university from consideration over this one person is simply ridiculous.
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  • maya54maya54 2236 replies91 threads Senior Member
    ^^^ Agree. I think IU handled this matter as well as any public university whose hands are tied could have. Bravo to them
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  • jagrrenjagrren 30 replies1 threads Junior Member
    IU should hire another professor to teach the same classes at the same times, and that way students could vote with their feet. Although that could have an embarrassing outcome if enough bigoted students choose the professor in question.
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  • techmom99techmom99 3494 replies6 threads Senior Member
    @Nhatrang -

    I read the requirement that the professor have a second teacher help with the grading to be part of the double blind requirement - a means of making sure that he doesn't discriminate in his assessments and/or that he doesn't downgrade students based on their race, sexuality, religion, etc.

    My town sends a lot of kids, mostly Jewish, to this school... I am out of the HS loop, so I don't know if this will have any impact on future enrollment.

    I think that there may be some way to get rid of him based on the contract. IF an insufficient number of students enroll in his classes, if his student ratings show he is ineffective, if he somehow violates other IU tenets, then perhaps the First Amendment considerations can become secondary to potentially legitimate concerns about his ability to meet his contractual obligations.
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  • OhiBroOhiBro 372 replies6 threads Member
    @doschicos
    Some viewpoints are so wrong-headed that they are unworthy of discussion
    In other words, brainwashing.

    @jagrren
    could have an embarrassing outcome if enough bigoted students choose the professor in question.
    How can an assertion be made that a student is a bigot if he/she chooses to take his class? Sounds extreme.

    It should be noted that these news articles, as is common these days, twist words to intentionally make people look bad. For example, the USA Today piece that was linked earlier quote the prof for using the term housewife, with “housewife” is quotes, as though it is somehow demeaning to use such a term. This is in addition to cherry-picking quotes without expanding on the prof’s reasoning for the statements.

    If anything in this situation is appalling, it is the provost’s behavior. The line in her statement where she says “ as vile and stupid as they are” when referring to the cherry-picked prof’s statements was completely unnecessary to make her point. But the most oppressive regimes in history would be proud of her attempt at thought control.
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