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Cal State system going online for fall 2021

CamasiteCamasite 181 replies7 threads Junior Member
edited May 12 in Parents Forum
They just announced it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/12/us/coronavirus-live-news-updates.html
In the most sweeping sign yet of the effect of the pandemic on American higher education, the chancellor of California State University, the nation’s largest four-year public university system, said Tuesday that classes at its 23 campuses would be canceled for the fall semester, with instruction taking place almost exclusively online.

Addressing a meeting of the system’s board of trustees, the chancellor, Timothy P. White, allowed for the possibility of exceptions. If health and safety precautions permit, clinical classes in the nursing program, for example, could be held in person, he said, as could certain science labs and other essential instruction.

But for most undergraduate students enrolled at the Cal States, as they are known, classes will continue virtually, as they have since campuses closed.

“Our university, when open without restrictions and fully in person, as is the traditional norm of the past, is a place where over 500,000 people come together in close and vibrant proximity with each other on a daily basis,” Mr. White said. “That approach, sadly, just isn’t in the cards now as I have described.”

I expect that a lot of other schools will soon follow.
edited May 12
30 replies
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Replies to: Cal State system going online for fall 2021

  • SouthernHopeSouthernHope 2119 replies216 threads Senior Member
    edited May 12
    just my own opinion....and neither of my kids is in a decision year so this doesn't affect our family directly....but I would have serious qualms about choosing a CA school as an OOS family knowing that our kid would be taking classes from a laptop in our dining room. I realize the moment we're in...and the important and hard decisions that these colleges are having to make....but I would just not be willing to shell out $60,000 for this.
    edited May 12
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  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan 13492 replies32 threads Senior Member
    edited May 12
    @SouthernHope: Good thing the CalStates don't cost anywhere close to $60K/year for anybody.

    But it's not going to be limited to the CalStates. Pretty soon, many parents will have to decide if $50K+/year tuition for Zoom classes is really worth it. See my Scott Galloway thread.
    edited May 12
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  • bluebayoubluebayou 27917 replies196 threads Senior Member
    fwiw: local CBS affiliate in LA reports that a UC official said today "not to expect any UC campus to open fully by the fall."

    Just another reason why paying OOS rates to attend a UC is almost always a bad value.
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  • scorekeeper1scorekeeper1 126 replies1 threads Junior Member
    This decision could have impact on college sports. The NCAA has already announced that if students are not on campus in the fall, there will not be sports on campus. San Diego State, for example, is not just a commuter school, does have all freshman and sophomores living on campus, and has a football program which likely provides funding for non-revenue sports.
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  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus 82851 replies738 threads Senior Member
    This decision could have impact on college sports. The NCAA has already announced that if students are not on campus in the fall, there will not be sports on campus. San Diego State, for example, is not just a commuter school, does have all freshman and sophomores living on campus, and has a football program which likely provides funding for non-revenue sports.

    SDSU is one of the few more residential CSUs (along with CPSLO, SSU, CSUMB, CSUCI, HSU, CSUC, CSUMA). SDSU's frosh housing requirement applies only to frosh living outside its local area (and they probably make other exceptions for non-traditional frosh); 71% of frosh at SDSU lived in campus housing in a recent year.
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  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan 13492 replies32 threads Senior Member
    edited May 13
    bluebayou wrote: »


    Just another reason why paying OOS rates to attend a UC is almost always a bad value.


    Again, this won't be limited to CA publics.

    Many people will start wondering if paying about $200K tuition to any school for an undergrad degree is good value when it's buying you Zoom classes.
    edited May 13
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  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus 82851 replies738 threads Senior Member
    Many people will start wondering if paying about $200K tuition to any school for an undergrad degree is good value when it's buying you Zoom classes.

    Depends on what they think they are paying for. If they are paying for a premium residential college experience, then they have no reason to pay more than for a low cost college. But if they are paying for what they consider better academic content and/or prestige, then they may still be willing to pay a premium.
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  • bluebayoubluebayou 27917 replies196 threads Senior Member
    edited May 13
    bluebayou wrote: »


    Just another reason why paying OOS rates to attend a UC is almost always a bad value.


    Again, this won't be limited to CA publics.

    Many people will start wondering if paying about $200K tuition to any school for an undergrad degree is good value when it's buying you Zoom classes.

    I predict that the top privates (Unis and LACs) will have no problem filling classes. For every homer dog, Bowdoin has dozens on its WL who would love an opportunity to pay sticker. Moreover, ~half of students are on finaid, so already receiving a significant discount.

    The ones who will hurt (and fold) are the privates who have high admission rates, i.e., not selective.
    edited May 13
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  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan 13492 replies32 threads Senior Member
    edited May 13
    bluebayou wrote: »
    bluebayou wrote: »


    Just another reason why paying OOS rates to attend a UC is almost always a bad value.


    Again, this won't be limited to CA publics.

    Many people will start wondering if paying about $200K tuition to any school for an undergrad degree is good value when it's buying you Zoom classes.

    I predict that the top privates (Unis and LACs) will have no problem filling classes. For every homer dog, Bowdoin has dozens on its WL who would love an opportunity to pay sticker. Moreover, ~half of students are on finaid, so already receiving a significant discount.


    The question is if they will be Zoom classes.

    And how are they filling classes? With transfers? Haven't some of these students who are taking a break already started?

    They can't just plug in freshmen or else classes would become unbalanced.
    edited May 13
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  • Mwfan1921Mwfan1921 4974 replies86 threads Senior Member
    bluebayou wrote: »
    bluebayou wrote: »


    Just another reason why paying OOS rates to attend a UC is almost always a bad value.


    Again, this won't be limited to CA publics.

    Many people will start wondering if paying about $200K tuition to any school for an undergrad degree is good value when it's buying you Zoom classes.

    I predict that the top privates (Unis and LACs) will have no problem filling classes. For every homer dog, Bowdoin has dozens on its WL who would love an opportunity to pay sticker. Moreover, ~half of students are on finaid, so already receiving a significant discount.


    The question is if they will be Zoom classes.

    And how are they filling classes? With transfers? Haven't some of these students who are taking a break already started?

    They can't just plug in freshmen or else classes would become unbalanced.

    They can bring in more transfers to backfill current students who take leaves.
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  • bluebayoubluebayou 27917 replies196 threads Senior Member
    edited May 13
    bluebayou wrote: »
    bluebayou wrote: »


    Just another reason why paying OOS rates to attend a UC is almost always a bad value.


    Again, this won't be limited to CA publics.

    Many people will start wondering if paying about $200K tuition to any school for an undergrad degree is good value when it's buying you Zoom classes.

    I predict that the top privates (Unis and LACs) will have no problem filling classes. For every homer dog, Bowdoin has dozens on its WL who would love an opportunity to pay sticker. Moreover, ~half of students are on finaid, so already receiving a significant discount.


    The question is if they will be Zoom classes.

    And how are they filling classes? With transfers? Haven't some of these students who are taking a break already started?

    They can't just plug in freshmen or else classes would become unbalanced.

    Not sure I understand the question. Will there be zoom classes? Well, not necessarily zoom per se, but there is no question that ALL colleges will have at least some classes online. (The ADA will require accommodations for any faculty member who is at greater risk -- age+co-morbiditiy.)

    And the primarily residential colleges will eventually put on their big boy pants and show some tough love to those requesting gap years. (sorry, we are limiting gap years to the usual unique circumstances, i.e., military).

    edited May 13
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  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan 13492 replies32 threads Senior Member
    edited May 13
    @bluebayou, in which case, I'm not sure why you made the comment about paying OOS for CA publics being a bad value as any students paying about $50K/year in tuition would be in the same boat.
    edited May 13
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  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus 82851 replies738 threads Senior Member
    edited May 13
    bluebayou wrote: »
    The ones who will hurt (and fold) are the privates who have high admission rates, i.e., not selective.

    The more that the college's appeal (in terms of willingness of students and parents to pay a premium over the cost of a low cost college) is based on the experience, rather than academic content or prestige, the more it will be hurt when the experience is equalized across all colleges.

    However, academic content and/or prestige (at least as perceived) may still be important to many posters who seemingly highly value the experience. Otherwise, we would see lots of the no-or-little-FA posters complaining about the loss of experience looking at ways to transfer to a CSU or the equivalent in their home state.
    edited May 13
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  • bluebayoubluebayou 27917 replies196 threads Senior Member
    ucbalumnus wrote: »
    bluebayou wrote: »
    The ones who will hurt (and fold) are the privates who have high admission rates, i.e., not selective.

    The more that the college's appeal (in terms of willingness of students and parents to pay a premium over the cost of a low cost college) is based on the experience, rather than academic content or prestige, the more it will be hurt when the experience is equalized across all colleges.

    However, academic content and/or prestige (at least as perceived) may still be important to many posters who seemingly highly value the experience. Otherwise, we would see lots of the no-or-little-FA posters complaining about the loss of experience looking at ways to transfer to a CSU or the equivalent in their home state.

    Correct.
    I'm not sure why you made the comment about paying OOS for CA publics being a bad value...

    With the exception of a few specialized programs, I've always been of the opinion that paying OOS rates for a public is poor value. And now with COVID, it's even worse value IMO.
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  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus 82851 replies738 threads Senior Member
    Speaking of expensive colleges that may see a drop in demand, how will New York University and Boston University do in terms of student demand? Seems like much of their appeal is the experience (in New York and Boston). Now that the experience is gone (and may be undesirable considering the virus prevalence in those cities), how will they appeal to students and parents?
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  • gratefulmamagratefulmama 363 replies11 threads Member
    Does anyone actually think they will resume to in-person for spring, after winter break and at the height of flu season? Seems highly unlikely. They might as well come out and say next year will be online.
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  • PurpleTitanPurpleTitan 13492 replies32 threads Senior Member
    bluebayou wrote: »



    With the exception of a few specialized programs, I've always been of the opinion that paying OOS rates for a public is poor value. And now with COVID, it's even worse value IMO.

    Compared to what? If you compare to an in-state public, sure, I see your point (but may still disagree, depending on what aspect a student is paying for). But then your argument applies to full-pays at a private during the pandemic, no?

    You keep dodging that point.
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  • aquaptaquapt 2420 replies49 threads Senior Member
    ChemAM wrote: »
    @PurpleTitan The thing is, the Cal States (not to be confused with the UCs) are mostly commuter schools, have almost no students living on-campus, almost all in-state students with very cheap tuition, already have strong online infrastructures, and already offer most of their curriculum online in addition to in person. So they don’t lose much by going online. I think this has little, if any, relevance to what residential colleges will do.

    "Almost no students living on campus" is true of some campuses but very much not true of others.

    This article from 2017 gives some useful numbers. https://edsource.org/2017/cal-state-adding-dorms-with-hopes-to-improve-graduation-rates-provide-reasonable-rent/585418 The most residential CSU campuses (Sonoma and SLO) house 40% of their students on campus. System-wide, there are more than 45,000 on-campus beds.

    And those stats fail to consider the huge number of CSU students who "commute" from off-campus apartments that they are renting for the purpose of attending the school, not because the college's town is their permanent home. Yes, 98% of Chico State students live off campus... but how many of them are *from* Chico? 80% of the 17K students rent within two miles of campus. That's a very different scenario from schools like East Bay or Dominguez Hills where many students commute from their actual homes.

    So, a system-wide decision to go remote is a big deal with wide-reaching ramifications, even if it will be an easy transition for *some* campuses and program.
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  • ChemAMChemAM 335 replies0 threads Member
    edited May 13
    bluebayou wrote: »
    bluebayou wrote: »
    bluebayou wrote: »


    Just another reason why paying OOS rates to attend a UC is almost always a bad value.


    Again, this won't be limited to CA publics.

    Many people will start wondering if paying about $200K tuition to any school for an undergrad degree is good value when it's buying you Zoom classes.

    I predict that the top privates (Unis and LACs) will have no problem filling classes. For every homer dog, Bowdoin has dozens on its WL who would love an opportunity to pay sticker. Moreover, ~half of students are on finaid, so already receiving a significant discount.


    The question is if they will be Zoom classes.

    And how are they filling classes? With transfers? Haven't some of these students who are taking a break already started?

    They can't just plug in freshmen or else classes would become unbalanced.

    Not sure I understand the question. Will there be zoom classes? Well, not necessarily zoom per se, but there is no question that ALL colleges will have at least some classes online. (The ADA will require accommodations for any faculty member who is at greater risk -- age+co-morbiditiy.)

    And the primarily residential colleges will eventually put on their big boy pants and show some tough love to those requesting gap years. (sorry, we are limiting gap years to the usual unique circumstances, i.e., military).

    @bluebayou Amherst College has said for next year, they will grant any and all gap semester/year requests, and it is very easy to do so; all you have to do is email your class dean. Some students have already had gap year requests granted already (namely athletes, who don't want to return considering that sports in fall/winter are very unlikely, and sports even in Spring 2021 are in question). They said regardless of their decision with regard to the fall semester, they will continue honoring any and all gap semester/year requests for the next academic year.

    Also, I think next year, what they really need to do is "put on their big boy pants" and realize that an entirely online and remote approach is just unsustainable, give students and faculty the option of working from home while also allowing them to return if they want, and bring the students back.
    edited May 13
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