right arrow
Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04

Wake Forest to drop SAT/ACT

PackMomPackMom 7650 replies17 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 7,667 Senior Member
edited December 2008 in Parents Forum
Just read in this morning's newspaper Charlotte Observer | Frontpage (look under news flashes) that Wake Forest University will no longer require SAT/ACT scores for admission starting with the class entering in 2009.

School officials say they are changing their policies after research showed the tests favor the wealthy and are not good predictors of college success.
edited December 2008
88 replies
Post edited by PackMom on
· Reply · Share
«1345

Replies to: Wake Forest to drop SAT/ACT

  • phoridphorid 60 replies8 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 68 Junior Member
    NY Times reported today (May 27th) that both Smith College and Wake Forest will no longer require students to submit SAT or ACT scores starting in the fall of 2009.
    · Reply · Share
  • mblackm8mblackm8 68 replies8 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 76 Junior Member
    I think this is a great decision, and other Universities should follow suit. I did poorly on the SAT,but I was still accepted to a college and so far I have stellar grades in all classes(3.7 GPA). In other words, the SAT does not accurately demonstrate one's potential performance in college.
    · Reply · Share
  • willmingtonwavewillmingtonwave 3183 replies161 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 3,344 Senior Member
    Very interesting.
    There is some more information on the Wake website:
    WFU | Window on Wake Forest

    It reflects well on Wake that we are one of the first elite schools to do this.
    · Reply · Share
  • tokenadulttokenadult 15970 replies1501 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 17,471 Senior Member
    Wake Forest so far is the most highly ranked college (by the U.S. News methodology) to do this. I don't think this is a signal that there will be a rush to abandon SAT testing at the top of that or of other ranking lists, but rather this illustrates how tough Wake's competition is for the high-scoring students to which it sends recruiting letters.
    · Reply · Share
  • HuntHunt 26787 replies131 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 26,918 Senior Member
    I'll be interested in the first competitive school that declines to look at any standardized test scores at all.
    · Reply · Share
  • mammallmammall 1654 replies47 discussions- Posts: 1,701 Senior Member
    Ironic that the SAT was introduced to introduce FAIRNESS into admissions.
    · Reply · Share
  • tokenadulttokenadult 15970 replies1501 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 17,471 Senior Member
    If we compare Duke's score profile

    College Search - Duke University - Duke - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®

    to Wake Forest's,

    College Search - Wake Forest University - Wake Forest - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®

    we see essentially why Wake Forest decided to take itself out of this brutal in-region competition. This is a typical pattern for SAT-optional colleges: some other college that is otherwise comparable has much higher SAT statistics. That's why Worcester Polytechnic Institute went SAT-optional, and also why Gustavus Adolphus College in Minnesota did.
    · Reply · Share
  • willmingtonwavewillmingtonwave 3183 replies161 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 3,344 Senior Member
    I agree with that, it helps distinguish us so we do not get lost in the shuffle of schools like Duke, Vanderbilt, UVA, W&M, UNC, Emory, Davidson, etc. Furthermore, I think this is an attempt to promote diversity on part of the administration in terms of geography, race, socioeconomic status, etc.
    · Reply · Share
  • mammallmammall 1654 replies47 discussions- Posts: 1,701 Senior Member
    ^ It will also probably make many very strong applicants decide NOT to apply there.
    · Reply · Share
  • kentuckymomkentuckymom 385 replies15 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 400 Member
    I have to agree with mammall, I think this could be a strike against WF with very academically gifted students--makes one think that the other very subjective factors that weigh in on the admissions decision could result in a less academically inclined student body.
    · Reply · Share
  • HuntHunt 26787 replies131 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 26,918 Senior Member
    As tokenadult suggests, this may just be making a virtue of necessity. Wake will still consider SATs, and you can bet they will take students with as high scores as they can get--but they already weren't getting them.
    · Reply · Share
  • dadxdadx 2642 replies9 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 2,651 Senior Member
    Well, congratulations to Wake Forest on being bold. I have to wonder, however, what is truly behind this.


    One fears it paves the way to allow more "social engineering". You'll get more marginally qualified students from the oppressed groups, and more marginally qualified students from the groups financially successful enough to pay for themselves and others, and woe to the merely highly-qualified who fall into the middle ground.

    I suspect that SAT scores are the inconvenient truth in the way of the priviledge rectification business that the soc professor prefers to the business of education.
    · Reply · Share
  • interesteddadinteresteddad 23879 replies298 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 24,177 Senior Member
    This is simply a move to increase the number of applicants:

    Students will mistakenly believe that not submitting their low scores will improve their odds of admission. The application numbers will swell from applicants who have little chance of admission.

    Wake Forest can continue to take low SAT students with other attributes just as they do today. They will simply assume that anyone not reporting scores is a low-scorer.
    · Reply · Share
  • HuntHunt 26787 replies131 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 26,918 Senior Member
    What's more, they can say that they don't care about the fact that they have lower median SAT scores than other schools, because to them it is no longer "important."
    · Reply · Share
  • MomofWildChildMomofWildChild 22549 replies189 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 22,738 Senior Member
    All the families I know who have visited Wake love it. They love the campus, the students and the whole "vibe". Very few of the kids wind up going there, for some reason. I guess Wake falls into that sort-of "middle range" where a lot of the applicants who, even though they love Wake, get into a more selective school and pick it.
    It will be interesting to see how this new move pans out.
    · Reply · Share
  • nngmmnngmm 5613 replies95 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 5,708 Senior Member
    Wake Forest can continue to take low SAT students with other attributes just as they do today. They will simply assume that anyone not reporting scores is a low-scorer.
    I am sure it will also raise their reported SAT scores quite a bit (the low scorers will be more likely not submit their scores), and thus raise the ranking in USNWR. (That's how Middlebury has such high score ranges - they only use the "reported scores", while being "SAT optional"...)
    · Reply · Share
  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon 11830 replies298 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 12,128 Senior Member
    TA wrote:
    Wake Forest so far is the most highly ranked college (by the U.S. News methodology) to do this.
    Not even close. ;) Off the top of my head Bowdoin, Middlebury, Hamilton, Bates (and maybe MHC) are all ranked higher. Oh, you probably meant "real" colleges, not LAC's. My bad. ;)

    For those who want to read more.
    Another First for SAT-Optional Movement :: Inside Higher Ed :: Higher Education's Source for News, Views and Jobs
    One unusual factor in Wake Forest’s decision-making process is that many of those involved read and discussed the implications of a scholarly book by one of the university’s faculty members. The Power of Privilege: Yale and America’s Elite College (2007, Stanford University Press) is by Joseph A. Soares, a Wake Forest sociologist who has done extensive work on issues related to social class and higher education.

    In the book, Soares argues that the shifts at Yale and elsewhere in the ’60s — widely portrayed as replacing an aristocracy with a meritocracy at elite colleges — were far less dramatic and far less threatening to elite socioeconomic groups than such colleges would have you believe. And the book argues that the SAT — proclaimed by the College Board and colleges that support it to be a tool for allowing talent in — has actually been used consistently to keep some groups out. Soares cites documentary evidence, for instance, to show how the colleges that backed the creation and spread of the SAT pushed it with the explicit aim of having a “scientific” justification for limiting the enrollment of Jewish students.

    While the SAT and higher education have changed since then, the Soares book drives home the point that the use (or abandonment) of various tests tends to have specific impacts on specific groups of potential applicants.
    · Reply · Share
  • tokenadulttokenadult 15970 replies1501 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 17,471 Senior Member
    Thanks, Cur, for the book reference.

    Thanks too for pointing out that my point would have been clearer if I had referred to Wake Forest as a "national university" rather than use the more general term "college." The U.S. News methodology makes it debatable just how specific colleges in the national university category compare to liberal arts colleges.
    · Reply · Share
  • arcadiaarcadia 2429 replies118 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 2,547 Senior Member
    I am sure it will also raise their reported SAT scores quite a bit (the low scorers will be more likely not submit their scores), and thus raise the ranking in USNWR. (That's how Middlebury has such high score ranges - they only use the "reported scores", while being "SAT optional"...)

    Get your facts straight. Middlebury reports the SAT I scores for every student for whom they have scores, regardless of whether they were used in admission or not. Eighty-eight percent of last year's matriculants submitted SAT I scores and 24 percent submitted ACT scores.
    · Reply · Share
  • interesteddadinteresteddad 23879 replies298 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 24,177 Senior Member
    Get your facts straight. Middlebury reports the SAT I scores for every student for whom they have scores, regardless of whether they were used in admission or not.

    Yeah. After Middlebury took a beating for gaming the system and reporting fantasy-land median SATs to USNEWS for a couple of years.
    · Reply · Share
This discussion has been closed.

Recent Activity