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With no Score Choice allowed, can you submit Subject Test scores w/o SAT scores?

sacchisacchi 2056 replies77 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
edited July 2009 in Parents Forum
If a college says that it doesn't allow Score Choice, does that mean that you are required to submit SAT scores if you submit Subject Test scores?

My S's ACT scores (35 comp, 35 E, 35M, 34 R, 36 S) are better than his SAT scores (2220 combined, 710 CR, 710 W, 800 W). He took the SAT twice, and the second was better than the first in each section (the first time 2020 combined, 680 CR, 690 M, 650 W). He took the ACT once.

His Subject Test scores are 780 USH and 750 Math L2.

I'm wondering whether he should submit everything, or just ACT plus Subject Tests? If you submit both ACT and SAT, will schools only look at the higher one? We are from NJ where the SAT dominates, so I wonder if not submitting SAT scores is a red flag. He will also likely be NM Commended (PSAT 217, CR 80, M 72, W 65), so of course the schools will realize that he took the PSAT.

Does the advice change if the school is OK with Score Choice? Or if the school is in the northeast? In the mid-west?

Is it worth considering taking the SAT one more time in the fall? A higher SAT superscore is reasonably likely, since the highest section score on SAT was the lowest section score on PSAT and vice versa. I'm somewhat doubtful that a new superscored SAT will be better than the 35 ACT, but who knows? I'm inclined against a 3rd sitting of the SAT, since the ACT score is plenty good enough, but S has asked the question.

S's test scores are "higher" than his grades - he doesn't have an updated ranking yet, but junior year grades were better than freshman or sophomore year, so I predict that he will end up in the Top 10%, barely, at a suburban NJ public HS.
edited July 2009
45 replies
Post edited by sacchi on
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Replies to: With no Score Choice allowed, can you submit Subject Test scores w/o SAT scores?

  • mantori.suzukimantori.suzuki 3245 replies102 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Many schools says, "If you submit SAT scores, then you must submit the scores from every sitting." But I don't know of any that say, "If you took the SAT, then you must submit the scores."

    There are plenty of kids who take the ACT plus SAT subject tests, but not the regular SAT. My suggestion is to call each school's admissions office and ask if they'll allow you to submit the ACT plus SAT subject tests. No need even to mention that your son took the SAT.

    I'm interested to see if anyone disagrees with this. This makes sense to me, but I'm no expert.
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  • ellemenopeellemenope 11344 replies36 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Aren't there 2 questions here--what do you put on the application and what scores are on the score report sent to the school from College Board?

    For example, the Common Application says:

    Be sure to note the tests required for each institution to which you are applying. The official scores from the appropriate testing agency must be submitted to each institution as soon as possible. Please self-report your test scores below.

    So if your school says you can use either the SAT or ACT scores, and you choose to use the ACT scores, then put only the ACT scores down. If the school says you have to have 2 subject tests, then put the scores of 2 subject tests down. If the school says that they require you to put ALL test results down, then you have to do that.

    When it comes to sending the Score Reports, if a school does not mind that you use score choice, then send only the relevant SAT Subject tests and the ACT. If the school does not let you use score choice, then the score report will show all tests taken--the SAT and the Subject tests.
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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon 11830 replies298 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    At schools that DO NOT require SAT Subject Tests, I'd only send the ACT. D had great luck using only that. (She scored well, too.) Look at the stats . There are far, far fewer 35's than NMS.

    As to those requiring SAT Subject Tests and the ACT (a vanishing breed), check with each individual school as their rules will vary widely on score choice. If they allow only Subject Tests to go , then I'd send only them with the ACT. Under no circumstances would I let the SATs appear. (Well, maybe if you have to submit it to get a specific automatic NMS scholarship at USC, and the like.)

    I am one who believes that a lower, outlier SAT score is not easily forgotten for highly selective admissions or serious merit aid, even if they say it is. Why risk it?
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  • wjbwjb 2843 replies65 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    You're correct that if a school doesn't honor Score Choice, you're required to submit all scores for SAT I and II. With a 35 ACT, I sure wouldn't bother retaking the SAT I.

    As for whether to submit just the ACT, or to also submit the SATs, I could go either way. In general, I like the idea of submitting SAT IIs along with the ACT if the SAT IIs are outstanding. Your son's SAT IIs are very good. And his SAT I is more than respectable. I can't imagine it would penalize him. On the other hand, that ACT standing alone is quite lovely. I don't think either decision is a bad one.
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  • MarianMarian 13200 replies83 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    The irony here is that there are only a small number of colleges that 1) require a student submitting the ACT to also submit SAT Subject Test scores and 2) don't allow score choice, BUT those very same colleges are among the few that would consider a 2220 to be just ever-so-slightly disappointing.
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  • mantori.suzukimantori.suzuki 3245 replies102 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    there are only a small number of colleges that 1) require a student submitting the ACT to also submit SAT Subject Test scores

    In fact, I know of none that require it, but there are plenty that will accept it. So, if your SAT Subject Test scores are good, you may as well submit them to give your application a little boost.
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  • wjbwjb 2843 replies65 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    ^^ That is not correct. Although quite a few schools will now accept the ACT alone in lieu of SAT I and Subject Tests, there are still a number of schools that require a student who submits the ACT to submit SAT Subject Tests as well. Here is a list: [url=http://www.****/admissions_req_subjects.aspx]Compass: Admissions Requirements[/url]

    As Marian pointed out, among the schools still requiring ACT plus Subject Tests, there are probably very few that are not going to honor Score Choice.
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  • qialahqialah 1891 replies8 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    I'm operating under the assumption that the UCs require SAT IIs whether you submit the SAT I or the ACT, however I would happily be told I'm incorrect.
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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon 11830 replies298 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    So (if the compass link is correct, and I'm not vouching for them) the list is :

    Williams
    Webb
    Wash+Lee
    the UC's
    Rice
    Princeton
    MIT
    Haverford
    Mudd
    Harvard
    Georgetown
    Olin
    Dartmouth
    Cornell
    Columbia
    CMU
    CalTech

    20 something by my count. (While many of those schools are great, lots of equally great schools NOT on that list, BTW.;))


    Now somebody go research: Question- Which ones won't allow just the SAT Subject Tests be sent when a student has also taken the SAT and doesn't want it to see the light of day.

    I'll bet we'll find just a handful.


    Edit: BTW, what the heck is up with the CC color scheme? My screen is all girlie blue, mocha latte, and washed out red. Yuck.
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  • wjbwjb 2843 replies65 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Your "if" raises an important point, Cur. No one should rely exclusively on the Compass website! Check with each school's website to confirm the policy.

    A cosmic color change, indeed. The community issues forum offers a way to go back to the old color scheme. I'm going to try to get used to this one. I am fond of turquoise.
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  • Erin's DadErin's Dad 33093 replies3778 threadsSuper Moderator Super Moderator
    Thanks for the hint about the community issues forum. I think the new color scheme is not good. It's more difficult to see where unread threads are (bold turquoise vs. regular?).
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  • OdysseyTiggerOdysseyTigger 484 replies16 threadsRegistered User Member
    from college board - http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/sat-score-use-practices-list.pdf


    Williams - highest section V1
    Webb - highest section V2
    Wash+Lee - highest section V2
    the UC's - all scores
    Rice - all scores
    Princeton - highest section V2
    MIT - highest section V1
    Haverford - highest section V2
    Mudd - all scores
    Harvard - highest section V1
    Georgetown - all scores
    Olin - not found
    Dartmouth - highest section - V2
    Cornell - all scores
    Columbia - all scores
    CMU - all scores
    CalTech - contact school
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  • curmudgeoncurmudgeon 11830 replies298 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Great link and MUCH appreciated, but isn't that only on multiple SATs? The OP was asking about sending Subject Tests without any SATs.

    BTW the definitions are on page 4 of V1, V2, all scores, etc.
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  • sacchisacchi 2056 replies77 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Cornell (CAS) requires 2 Subjects Tests plus either the SAT or ACT, and says no Score Choice. I've read the College Board's Score-Use Practices list, and subject tests don't seem to be mentioned at all, so I'm confused. At the Cornell info session, the speaker said that if you submit both SAT and ACT scores they pick whichever one is best. Still, I'm not sure I believe that.

    I thought that the 750 and 780 subject test scores were good enough to include with the ACT for schools that recommend but don't require subject tests (WUSTL), or don't require them when the ACT is used (Rice, Vassar, Tufts).
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  • yellowismellowyellowismellow 222 replies24 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    at a princeton infosession, the lady said you had to submit EVERYTHING. even middle school talent search stuff (***?).
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  • sacchisacchi 2056 replies77 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    ^ That is surprising, regarding middle school talent search SAT scores. Doesn't the College Board automatically remove any scores taken before 9th grade? It never even occurred to me to try to figure out how to get around that. And really, what interest would the schools really have in S's 7th grade scores?
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  • toadstooltoadstool 1107 replies38 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    College board has all the scores in a single file - if colleges require everything then you must send everything

    And really you are splitting hairs - both your son's ACT and SAT scores are excellent. He should be proud of both. Top colleges are looking at the total picture, not statistics calculated to 4 decimal points.
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  • vicariousparentvicariousparent 5754 replies186 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    The Yale admissions website has the most detailed instructions I've seen:
    Yale requires results from all of the SAT I and SAT II tests or all of the ACT tests you have taken. If you choose to fulfill our testing requirement with SAT scores, then it is not necessary to send any scores from the ACT, even if you have taken the ACT. And if you choose to fulfill the requirement using the ACT, you do not need to send us any SAT scores, unless you wish.

    However, and this is important, if you elect to use the SAT scores, you must report all scores from all SAT exams (both SAT I and SAT II) that you have taken. If you elect to use ACT scores, you must report all scores from all ACT exams you have taken. And if you choose to use a combination of SAT and ACT results, we require that you report all scores from both agencies.

    Even more details on:

    Instructions for Reporting Your Scores | Application to Yale College | Freshmen | Office of Undergraduate Admissions
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  • Mini VanMini Van 163 replies10 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    To ease fears about going ACT only. Child also had similar ACT score and was National Merit Commended and from East Coast HS. Had OK, but not great SAT IIs. Applied to six schools submitting ACT only and listed National Merit Commended as an Honor/Award. One Ivy required ACT plus SATIIs, but didn't submit them to any other schools. Never took SATI. Accepted at all schools. If there is a big difference in scores etc that you don't want to send, make sure they do not appear on your child's HS transcript. Relative applied to a school that didn't require any scores, but forgot they were on HS transcript and regretted not having them removed.
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  • Queen's MomQueen's Mom 2161 replies37 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    well at least Yale is clear in its requirements. No misunderstandings possible there.
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