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Stanford vs. Princeton

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Replies to: Stanford vs. Princeton

  • minderbenderminderbender Registered User Posts: 33 Junior Member
    exactly what I said you were, iCalculus. Again, thank you.
  • BaelorBaelor Registered User Posts: 3,640 Senior Member
    So why would iCalculus be a source of information for you about Princeton?
  • minderbenderminderbender Registered User Posts: 33 Junior Member
    Clearly he got the same impression of the school that I did-- he just liked those attributes where I strongly disliked them. If we both got the same impression about the school, don't you think there's perhaps an ounce of truth to it?

    Furthermore, I'm not using him as a source of information about Pton in any way. It's not like he's forming my perception of the school-- I already had a distaste for Princeton before I ever read his posts. He's merely enforcing my already existing opinion, and he seems to be coming through to help me prove a point every time I need him (Thanks iCalculus!)
  • BaelorBaelor Registered User Posts: 3,640 Senior Member
    If we both got the same impression about the school, don't you think there's perhaps an ounce of truth to it?

    Perhaps, if I believed that that impression were created in the vacuum of Princeton, which I do not.

    So for me to believe it, I would need to believe that you had NO preconception of Princeton at all until you visited.
  • minderbenderminderbender Registered User Posts: 33 Junior Member
    I can't speak for iCalculus, but for me-- no. I did not have a preconceived notion about Princeton before I visited. Believe it or not, but I didn't. I hardly knew anything about it, besides the fact that I might want to go there because I knew it was a great school. My perception stems FROM MY VISIT, and only after that does it stem from what I've heard and read about the school subsequently.
  • PtonAlumnusPtonAlumnus Registered User Posts: 253 Junior Member
    “It's fully within my rights to express this viewpoint. “

    The principle problem I have with CC is that people make comments about universities based on first impressions or second hand gossip. The discussions often head toward the gutter with multiple uninformed comments made one after another. The Bill of Rights guarantees your right to express your opinion; I am suggesting that Internet forums are more useful to high school students when current and alumni provide specific answers to prospective students.

    Minder, in HS teachers would encourage you to express your opinions since you were one of the best students. At Stanford the professors will strongly suggest that you should be able to back up your comments with facts and other supporting data. Unsupported comments will not get you very far.

    I attempt to provide verifiable facts about Princeton. The class of 2009 is from 49 states and 37 countries. Students of color represent 35.2% of the class. 20% of students neither parent went to college. 7% of students are the first in their family to attend college. I have never seen a religious breakdown of Princeton students; however there are 17 campus ministries 11 student religious organizations.

    Minder, since you continue to defend your first impressions can you share with us and provide links to substantiate “Pton is more WASPy and elitist than any other Ivy, or Stanford”.
  • NJDSNJDS Registered User Posts: 1,323 Senior Member
    none of these posts are helping us decide whether to choose stanford or princeton (at least not me) so please stay on topic if you are going to post.
  • minderbenderminderbender Registered User Posts: 33 Junior Member
    I am suggesting that Internet forums are more useful to high school students when current and alumni provide specific answers to prospective students.

    Certainly true. You know what;

    To the OP-
    Please disregard my comments. I mean this honestly. I'm not informed enough to pass judgment on Princeton, and my remarks are not intended to inform your decision, but merely to express my own opinion.

    I don't know how many times I've said that I'm only expressing my impression about Princeton from my visit there. Can a person not have an impression about a school and then, god for bid, post it on CC! *Gasp*

    But seriously, you want facts? Here:

    From Stanford's common data set, 49.25% of students are minorities (and that's when I factored "nonresident aliens" and "race/ethnicity unknown" into the "white" category, so I'm sure it's actually higher, because certainly not all internationals and unknowns are white). Stanford University: Common Data Set 2009-2010

    If you want me to look up the other Ivies I can do that as well.

    PtonAlumnus, you've got to understand something. I have a profound respect for Princeton, as for all the Ivy League institutions. I, for one, get extremely mad when people claim that those who went to places like Harvard and Princeton are somehow "out of touch" with the common man (you see this a lot in politics). I just personally didn't like the vibe of the place, and CC is a conduit through which people express their opinions (including me). This is exactly what I'm doing. I would never claim that my perception of Princeton is based in cold-hard fact. In fact I've professed the opposite; that it's all opinion. As the adage goes, "everyone is entitled to their own opinion; just not their own facts."
  • minderbenderminderbender Registered User Posts: 33 Junior Member
    And, I might add, I have a great respect for you as a graduate of Princeton (which, by the username, I'm assuming you are). Please don't take any of this personally
  • Wildwood11Wildwood11 Registered User Posts: 831 Member
    But by this logic you should direct your comments at iCalculus and Baelor, too. The only difference between their comments and mine is that theirs have been generally positive about Princeton and mine have been generally negative.

    I believe I did indirectly criticize iCalculus when I said you had backed up your belief with someone who hadn't even attended (yet?). And also in general, when I referred to the stereotypes in the echo chamber and posters who propagate the myths. And at the end of that post when I pointed out in so many words that there are some posters who embarrass people from the school they are promoting on every forum.

    But this is what you said about iCalculus:
    You seem to like Princeton because it's a school comprised of mainly rich white kids with little diversity, and it's a school that makes you sound smug, arrogant, and supercilious when you tell people you're going there. I hope you have fun there; what with their "eating clubs" and all. How fancy.

    And yet you use his attitude and a 1926 novel to support you confident description of Princeton:
    But the general atmosphere of the school seems pretty WASPY and uninclusive, if not downright snobby. (Funny-- this is the way it's been depicted in a lot of modern literature, too: The Sun Also Rises, for example)

    Hopefully, some of the factual information provided by PtonAlumnus will help to correct your prejudice.

    My basic point, however, was that my daughter also had a somewhat negative reaction to Princeton when we visited--not because she met any students that she disliked or because anything in the info session suggested that the school was elitist. But because she went in with a vague preconceived notion (I admit partially my fault) and the campus on that drizzly August day seemed too groomed, empty and perfect. Totally shallow observations.

    In retrospect, I realize we were completely guilty of a superficial judgement, something that is a pet peeve of mine, and that all the attributes that you project on Princeton, as well as those you ascribe to Stanford, are found in very similar degrees at both, and all of their peers.

    And sorry to OP for all the sidetracking, but it happens and you should just skip through and use what you can to help you.
  • Omega SanctionOmega Sanction Registered User Posts: 172 Junior Member
    Minder, since you continue to defend your first impressions can you share with us and provide links to substantiate “Pton is more WASPy and elitist than any other Ivy, or Stanford”.

    I don't intend for my comment to refute yours by any means, but just some more data from Collegeboard in response to:
    I attempt to provide verifiable facts about Princeton. The class of 2009 is from 49 states and 37 countries. Students of color represent 35.2% of the class. 20% of students neither parent went to college. 7% of students are the first in their family to attend college. I have never seen a religious breakdown of Princeton students; however there are 17 campus ministries 11 student religious organizations.

    A preliminary look at the 8 Ivy League schools as well as Stanford puts Princeton at tied for #1 in highest percentage of Whites. It's tied w/ Brown at 49%, slightly ahead of Dartmouth at 48%, Cornell at 44%, Harvard at 40%, and the rest of them in the 30s.

    By this superficial measure, Princeton does have a claim to at least being the most White Ivy (+ Stanford)... Princeton does appear to be fairly diverse (and certainly more so than it was historically), but it seems like arguing that Princeton is more diverse than its peers is a bad route.
  • PtonGrad2000PtonGrad2000 Registered User Posts: 1,368 Senior Member
    A preliminary look at the 8 Ivy League schools as well as Stanford puts Princeton at tied for #1 in highest percentage of Whites. It's tied w/ Brown at 49%, slightly ahead of Dartmouth at 48%, Cornell at 44%, Harvard at 40%, and the rest of them in the 30s.

    Omega, the Collegeboard numbers don't appear to be even close. Here are the numbers from the most recent Common Data Set forms for the Ivies and Stanford. I believe these reflect this year's freshman class but it doesn't change much even if you averaged all four classes.

    % White----% International --- School

    64%--8%
    Cornell
    61%--7%
    Dartmouth
    60%--8%
    Brown
    59%--9%
    Yale
    58%--10%----Harvard, Penn, Princeton
    57%--10%----Columbia
    45%--7%
    Stanford

    Harvard, Penn and Princeton are at the lower end of the Ivies in terms of white enrollment, or, to put it another way, are second highest in the Ivies in terms of ethnic diversity. Stanford has a huge Asian-American population reflecting, in large part, the ethnic makeup of its home state of California. On the other hand, it has a slightly lower international population.
  • Omega SanctionOmega Sanction Registered User Posts: 172 Junior Member
    Omega, I'm not sure what source you have for that but those numbers aren't even close. Here are the numbers from the Common Data Set forms for the Ivies and Stanford. I believe these reflect this year's freshman class but it doesn't change much even if you averaged all four classes.

    I was using whatever Collegeboard uses. Here's Princeton's page, for example: College Search - Princeton University - At a Glance

    The difference probably partially stems from your/the CDS's designation of Hispanics and Nonresident Aliens... I can't imagine what else it would be.
  • BaelorBaelor Registered User Posts: 3,640 Senior Member
    By this superficial measure, Princeton does have a claim to at least being the most White Ivy (+ Stanford)... Princeton does appear to be fairly diverse (and certainly more so than it was historically), but it seems like arguing that Princeton is more diverse than its peers is a bad route.

    I reject the idea of race as a proxy for diversity.

    If you want to talk about diversity, talk about race AND socioeconomic status AND political ideology AND religion AND sexual orientation etc.

    If you include all of those factors, then you get a more complete picture. So your statement is totally vacuous because your own closed-mindedness has limited your definition of diversity.


    You want to talk about diversity, explain Stanford's Californian population (or the EC pops. of the Ivies, etc.).
  • Omega SanctionOmega Sanction Registered User Posts: 172 Junior Member
    I reject the idea of race as a proxy for diversity.

    If you want to talk about diversity, talk about race AND socioeconomic status AND political ideology AND religion AND sexual orientation etc.

    If you include all of those factors, then you get a more complete picture. So your statement is totally vacuous because your own closed-mindedness has limited your definition of diversity.

    I apologize and invalidate your complaint by clarifying I meant diverse racially when I made that comment you quoted.
    You want to talk about diversity, explain Stanford's Californian population (or the EC pops. of the Ivies, etc.).

    EC pops.? Not entirely sure what that is, sorry.

    Re: Stanford's high California population.

    According to their respective Common Data Sets (2009 - 2010 for both schools), Stanford is 46% Californian while Princeton is 19% New Jerseyian (not really sure what the term is).

    By a 2008 estimate, New Jersey constitutes 2.794% of the United States population while California constitutes 11.86% of the United States population. This shows that Princeton over represents New Jersey 6.8:1 while Stanford over represents California 3.9:1. Of course, by absolute percentages, Princeton over represents New Jersey by 16.2% while Stanford over represents California 34.1%.

    What do we conclude from this? Well, nothing. Even private schools over represent their states dramatically, and California just happens to be huge. By some metrics, it is possible to argue that Stanford fails more at maintaining geographic diversity than Princeton does... But by others, the exact opposite argument can be made.
This discussion has been closed.