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harvey mudd vs. rhit?

noodledancenoodledance Registered User Posts: 47 Junior Member
which one do you think is better? i've heard that hmc is more graduate school oriented while rose is more career oriented, is that true? i'm definitely planning on going to grad school so is that something i should consider as a con for attending rose?
Post edited by noodledance on
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Replies to: harvey mudd vs. rhit?

  • qafa34qafa34 Registered User Posts: 37 Junior Member
    Which one you think is better is what really matters ... below is a couple of older threads:

    http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/996204-rose-hulman-harvey-mudd.html

    http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/799709-harvey-mudd-vs-rose-hulman.html

    ***The only thing I can add is that based on the schools' websites ~20% of RH grads go to graduate school whereas ~47% of HM grads go on to graduate school ... I don't know why the discrepancy but IMO it has to do perhaps with the intern program or the focus of incoming freshman that go to RH ... I don't think it is because the RH grads can't get into Master Programs.

    My son will be attending RH this Fall ... as a matter of fact he is applying to get into the Fast Track program ... Lastly, he is planning on going on to a Masters Program.

    Good luck
  • HimmerHimmer Registered User Posts: 13 New Member
    I was accepted at both as well. It would have been a hard decision, but RHIT offered better financial aid/scholarships, so I am going to go there. :D

    I can't find the list online, but I have a pamphlet from RHIT with the list of graduate schools students have attended in the past three years: Stanford, MIT, Harvard, Yale, Carnegie Mellon, Berkeley, Johns Hopkins etc, were all on there. About 20% of graduates from RHIT attend graduate programs, but most graduates go straight into industry with starting salaries averaging about $60,000.

    In comparison, HM's graduates entering the workforce make just less than $70,000 on average, though I think how much you make will have more to do with you than on which college you attend. (Btw, both those statistics don't take into account students who go on to graduate school.)
  • RHITAdmissionsRHITAdmissions College Rep Posts: 162 Junior Member
    Some differences: better college life at Rose-Hulman...more diversity of interests held by the students. HM assigns residence halls based on gaming interests. Our kids see the sunlight a bit more. RHIT is much more of an athletic campus with close to 60% of the student body having been varsity athletes in high school. Over two-thirds played an instrument or sang in the choir.

    Average starting salary will fluctuate based on where the students live. HM grad staying in California will be paid more, but cost of living is probably twice that of the Midwest. RHIT grads going to the coasts demand the same starting salary range as anyone.

    At Rose-Hulman, you have a major in a specific area of engineering as opposed to the open General Engineering option of Harvey Mudd. That is one reason their grads are going to grad school at a MUCH higher rate immediately after graduation: they don't have a specialty area and have to gain that in grad school.

    That also doesn't mean that Rose-Hulman grads aren't well rounded. One of my former student tour guides was an ME major and always made fun of EEs. Well, her fiance lived in Dallas so she had a very limited job search radius for after graduation. Where is she working? At Texas Instruments...as a EE. Yeah, well rounded.

    Rose grads that choose to go to grad school have great options as listed above. I supervise our tour guides and last week one of them chose to attend Notre Dame for a Masters in Biomedical Engineering. Course, his decision was made easy when they offered him full tuition and $35K a year living stipend.

    Well, good night from China (course it's almost noon here). I'll try to check in again later.

    Jared Goulding
    Assistant Director of Admissions
    Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
  • noodledancenoodledance Registered User Posts: 47 Junior Member
    thank you for your answers
    by now, i've read quite a few threads about hmc vs rose, olin vs. rose, mit vs. rose, and it seems as though everyone disagrees with the us news ranking that places rhit at number 1.

    in fact, one thread said that the post grad success for students after rhit can not even compare to those at harvey and olin, much less mit. I don't understand how it seems to have such a bad reputation...

    can anyone give me some sort of answer?
  • RHITAdmissionsRHITAdmissions College Rep Posts: 162 Junior Member
    Answer is simple: ignorance. The ranking is determined by evaluations made by senior engineering faculty, deans of engineering programs, presidents of engineering schools, etc.--i.e. people who know what a top engineering program should look and act like. I'll take their word over anyone else's.
  • HimmerHimmer Registered User Posts: 13 New Member
    @noodledance,
    I'm guessing you're talking in part about the discussion here: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/83473-comparing-harvey-mudd-cooper-union-olin-rose-hulman.html

    Well, from what I understand, your personal ranking does have a lot to do with opinion.

    However, they are correct as far as test scores go. HMC's 75th percentile is a 35 ACT, but Rose's is only a 31 (32 this year, I believe). Anyway, what's really impressive about Rose is that when the students graduate, they are ranked by engineering school deans and faculty as number coming from the #1 undergraduate engineering program. Somehow, Rose brings these kids up to par--and sometimes even ahead--of the kids with higher highschool GPA's and test scores.

    Check out the methodology: Methodology: The Best Undergraduate Engineering Programs - US News and World Report

    "The U.S. News rankings of undergraduate engineering programs accredited by ABET, formerly known as the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology, are based solely on the peer judgments of deans and senior faculty who rated each program they are familiar with on a scale from 1 (marginal) to 5 (distinguished). Engineering school deans and faculty members (two surveys were sent to each ABET-accredited engineering program) were surveyed for this ranking in spring 2010."

    "post grad success for students after rhit can not even compare to those at harvey and olin, much less mit"

    Now, I couldn't find that CC post, but I read in the first link Olin just graduated its first senior class in 2005 or 2006, so I'm not really sure what they are talking about. :/

    Do you have a link or stats or anything to back up that assertion?
  • bay area mombay area mom Registered User Posts: 44 Junior Member
    http://www.olin.edu/pgp/docs/Combined%20Alumni-Current.pdf

    Link from Post Graduate Planning from Olin College 2006 - 2010
  • HimmerHimmer Registered User Posts: 13 New Member
    That's certainly an impressive list! Still, I'm not sure what noodledance meant--RHIT grads are at least comparable from what I've read.

    RHIT Math Alumni Pages

    That's a slightly dated list of just math majors.
  • Miles PerraraMiles Perrara Registered User Posts: 162 Junior Member
    "HM assigns residence halls based on gaming interests."

    Incoming students at Mudd fill out a detailed questionnaire so that they can be matched with a roommate with with complementary interests.

    "At Rose-Hulman, you have a major in a specific area of engineering as opposed to the open General Engineering option of Harvey Mudd. That is one reason their grads are going to grad school at a MUCH higher rate immediately after graduation: they don't have a specialty area and have to gain that in grad school."

    HMC students go to graduate school because they are interested in research. Their general subject major prepares them well for graduate school, which is why HMC is second after Caltech in PhD productivity.
  • MiruMiru Registered User Posts: 135 Junior Member
    Some differences: better college life at Rose-Hulman...

    What about Rose-Hulman's college life is better? Mudders will be playing frisbee in the sunshine while your students aren't leaving their rooms because of the snow. The college has a ridiculous budget for fun activities. The dorms are very close and active communities. These are just a few examples, and I don't know the RHIT counter examples. I *believe* that Mudd is better, but I won't go and out of hand say that we have "better college life" without giving any evidence.
    more diversity of interests held by the students.
    I don't know anything about RHIT students, so I can't necessarily say whether or not this is true when directly comparing Mudd students and RHIT students. However, remember that Mudd is surrounded by the other 4 Claremont Colleges, so you can definitely find more diversity of interests out here. There are loads of 5C clubs and events, so it's quite easy to become friends with people from the other colleges.
    HM assigns residence halls based on gaming interests.
    What??? This is a flat out lie. I would have expected better from someone who is officially representing a college.

    The "detailed questionnaire" that Miles Perrara mentioned in their own response to this untruth asks nothing about gaming interests. There is one dorm as Mudd that is stereotyped as the "gaming dorm," but I was placed in that dorm without mentioning games (video,computer,or even board) on my housing form, my sponsor matching form, or even my college application. I loved living in that dorm, but that was because of the crazy quirky people who included me in everything and mentored me throughout the year (even though only 1 of them was being paid to do so), not because of the board games that frequented the lounge (though I enjoyed those too).
    Our kids see the sunlight a bit more.
    I have an incredibly hard time believing this. We're in SoCal, land of sunshine and temperate weather. I did my homework outside for my entire first month here. On Friday afternoons or any day when the weather is 75+ you can always find people tossing a frisbee around. I don't think that people generally hide out in their rooms. The only way that you can possibly substantiate this claim is that a lot of Mudd classrooms are underground, so your students might get more sunlight just by sitting in class. I don't think that really counts though, especially since we're starting construction on a new building this summer that will bring in much more natural light.
    RHIT is much more of an athletic campus with close to 60% of the student body having been varsity athletes in high school. Over two-thirds played an instrument or sang in the choir.

    Ummm....note that these are *High School* statistics. If you want to support your claim that you have a more athletic campus, you need to say something about student athletes. The CMS cross-country team, mostly Mudders, has won the conference for years now, and 3 swimmers were all-conference swimmers this year. I wouldn't be surprised if you really do have a more athletic campus, but citing high school stuff is pretty meaningless. I was a varsity athlete in high school. It's really not that big of a deal. Mudd dominates the intramural sports in our 3C group, even though Claremont Mckenna has a much larger athlete population (this might have more to do with school/dorm spirit than athleticism though).

    I know loads of people in the music program *right now* so I'm sure that even more participated in high school. Again, current statistics are important, because they show that the school has people who are actually dedicated to their extracurriculars instead of just doing them because their parents wanted them to or they thought playing oboe would get them into college. It also shows that it's possible to balance workload and sports/the arts.

    I'm sorry about the rambling. I was going to leave CC and sleep, but I was drawn in by that horrible "gaming interest" sentence and couldn't help but write up a quick reply. I try not to get too involved in these debate threads because they generally get ridiculous, but blatant untruths can't be left alone, especially when they're coming from an adult poster who we should be able to trust.
  • gobeavsgobeavs Registered User Posts: 179 Junior Member
    HMC and Rose are both great undergraduate-focused schools. The applicant pools overlap a lot, I suspect, and there are just as many similarities as there are differences.

    As the OP said, HMC does tend to have a reputation as more graduate-focused, while Rose is more career-focused...that's something I heard back when I was deciding on colleges as well (4 years ago). I think it's true to some extent - obviously the numbers show a wide disparity - but that doesn't mean that you can't succeed in grad school coming from Rose or that you can't succeed in industry coming from HMC. Anecdotally, I have a friend at Rose who just graduated a month ago and he has been accepted at both CMU and Georgia Tech for master's in EE.

    It's true that HMC does teach more of a general engineering curriculum as opposed to Rose which has a traditional specialized engineering major curriculum. Although HMC does it differently than most engineering schools, I've heard good things about their system and I don't think Mudd grads are avoided in industry because of it. It just depends on what you want. For someone like me who wants to focus on EECS things, the more specialized curriculum at Rose fits me well. For someone who enjoys working with engineering across the spectrum, I suspect Harvey Mudd's broad curriculum suits them well.

    I also think some of the perceived differences stem from the fact that HMC students *do* have a slight edge in SAT/ACT, GPA, etc. But does that mean that HMC is automatically a better school? No. I suspect that some of the powerhouse publics such as GT and UIUC don't have as good of admitted student GPA and SAT/ACT scores...does that make them worse than HMC or Rose? No. The same student can do equally well at any of those schools.

    My friend that I mentioned above turned down Caltech to go to Rose-Hulman. He would have been one of those "superstars" in the Caltech freshman profile, but he chose Rose for its engineering education - now he's going to either CMU or GT for grad school. He probably would have had similar grad school opportunities had he gone to Caltech. Graduate programs don't admit schools, they admit students. If a student succeeds at Mudd and gets admitted to a great graduate school, that same student could likely have gone to Rose-Hulman or Georgia Tech or USC, been successful, and been admitted to great graduate schools as well. Obviously I'm generalizing, but it's true - the school doesn't make the student. You can succeed wherever you go.
  • MiruMiru Registered User Posts: 135 Junior Member
    Here are some useful stats on grad schools and employment:

    HMC: http://www.hmc.edu/files/careerservices/post-grad-survey.pdf
    RHIT: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology

    Like gobeavs said, you will do fine at either place if you apply yourself. It might just be easier to find some things at one school than at the other.

    For example, it looks like RHIT has more career fairs than we do, with more employers (there's something to be said for size there. Google told us (HMC) last year that they wouldn't come back to our career fair just because there weren't enough students to make it worth it. Thankfully, they still hired at least 3 interns and 1 full time this year, so clearly they still like Mudd students). Career fairs are a million times better than applying online, so that's a point for RHIT.

    On the other hand, if you look at the Grad school stats you will see several Ivy League schools + MIT on the Mudd page, and no Ivies at RHIT. If you want to go to a UC school, then Mudd clearly has the advantage as well (we have more connections within California). This is something that really depends on your major though. Ivies aren't really known for their engineering, so people going there are more likely to be Math or Physics majors.

    In fact, there are a lot of things that are major dependent. noodledance, if you are looking at something other than engineering then you should speak up, because everyone in this thread has assumed that you are looking for an engineering degree (and not considering chemistry, physics, math, biology, or computer science).
  • RHITAdmissionsRHITAdmissions College Rep Posts: 162 Junior Member
    Good to see our friends from HM here. Best of luck to you this year. As for housing being determined by gaming interest, only repeating what a student and mother indicated in my office. Thanks for the clarification and consider my statement retracted. Again, all the best this year.
  • noodledancenoodledance Registered User Posts: 47 Junior Member
    yes, i am going to be doing engineering. i'm considering either biomed or chemical. would you guys say that the quality of education is mostly equal? I just want to be as prepared as I possibly can for grad school and my career.

    I know that rhit doesn't do much research but grad schools pay a lot of attention to whether one has done at least some research? is that true?

    i've heard that you need to go to a well known school to get good education because well known school have more funds which attract better teachers etc. I know that tenure isnt based on research but rather on teaching at rhit but isn't research fairly important to get into a good grad school?

    and connections. sometimes i'm tempted to go to a bigger school or at least one near the city (wpi..40 miles from boston?) because the school will have more connections with well known people; utimately a strong network is very important. i'm afraid that rhit doesn't have this..especially not in the northeast.

    i mean, like they say, college is a lot about who you meet right? i'm worried that there isn't enough diversity at rose..

    this is just a very tough decision for me..
  • HimmerHimmer Registered User Posts: 13 New Member
    If they cost about the same (less than $5000 difference) and you want to go to grad school, go to HM. On the other hand, if you want to concentrate on your specific major, Rose may be better for you (HM has general engineering, but you're going to grad school so this may not be a problem for you). RH also offers more AP/IB credits if you want to double major. If I were you, I'd put most weight on the cost since both have wonderful teachers and offer a great education.

    For the record, you can (I've heard) do research at RH, but it's not very easy to find a professor to help out.
    Also, Rose is well-known among engineers (where it counts), although it is true that the general public isn't so familiar with the college.
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