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College Board is cancelling people's paid and confirmed registrations for March SAT...

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Replies to: College Board is cancelling people's paid and confirmed registrations for March SAT...

  • suzyQ7suzyQ7 3967 replies55 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    @Plotinus Thoughts?
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  • dowzerwdowzerw 2440 replies59 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    First of all, I love CC. I get news here often before anywhere else. From Michael Jackson's death (yes!) to college admissions decisions releases (my third kid in the pipeline now) to another CB testing fiasco.

    I don't have anything particularly enlightening to add. I think the argument of whether or not it is appropriate for a tutor to take the test or whether adults taking it is fair is all ridiculous. "Fair" isn't fair. Everything does not have to be the same for everyone. We have the right to reach for the top and if part of getting there is through studying extra hard with the help of a tutor, then so be it. You can define fair in that kind of a context. People have the right to prep as much or as little as they want/are able. If one person has access to more resources than another to prepare, that is life. Opportunity is always there and you just need to seek out opportunities of your own. And there are plenty of opportunities for those who don't have what the next person does for resources. Plenty. Just Google. CB should be able to find a way to make this work. We know there will be cheaters. We know there will be tutors. So develop a system to work with those givens.
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  • PlotinusPlotinus 939 replies19 threadsRegistered User Member
    "Narrowing the gap" is a completely wrong-headed way to conceive the aims of education. "Helping every student reach his or her full potential" is a proper goal of education. You don't dumb down the top just to narrow the gap with the bottom.

    To help students at all levels, especially the bottom, fulfill their full potential, you have to convince qualified people to teach them Free rides at university for anyone willing to commit at least 5 years to teaching in public school + same salary and benefits offered to starting employees at Microsoft. But Bill Gates doesn't want to pay teachers more because that will mean less for HIM.

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  • 2018eastorwest2018eastorwest 301 replies32 threadsRegistered User Member
    If you read my post citing the wasgingtonpost article @jgoggs you will see clear examples of adult test taker cheating. It seems like you must be reading right past it Bc it is plain for any knowledgeable person (to use your words) who knows what he is talking about (your words). It speaks about asian prep companies sending people to the us to take the test and memorize answers, monitoring sites where answers are discussed, taking the test in an earlier asian time zone and taking bathroom breaks to give out answers to clients in later time zones.

    Are we missing something? What is your stake in this?
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  • PlotinusPlotinus 939 replies19 threadsRegistered User Member
    The only effective way to reduce cheating is to stop recycling tests and to use different tests in different time zones. I have no problem with filtering adult test-takers except that it won't be very effective. CB cares more about its profits than combatting cheating.
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  • jgoggsjgoggs 208 replies22 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    @jgoggs - I assumed you're a tutor because - well, aren't you? I can't imagine anyone being upset that's not a tutor.

    The purpose of the test is for students to get into college. I have no problem with anything that the CB does to people that register for the test who aren't in that group. Why should I have any sympathy for people trying to take the SAT for their own personal gain? From what I've seen of the PSAT, it's very difficult for them to figure out how to score / norm this new test. If kicking out tutors from the March sitting is at all helpful for them (whether they admit it or not), I'm all for it.

    I am happy that the CB is legally able to cancel the registrations of professional test takers. If they don't have the legal right, you should sue them. End of story.

    With respect, @thshadow, what you've written here is simply a mixture of quasi-personal attack (who I am and what I do has no bearing on whether College Board was correct to take the actions that it took), nonsense that has already been discussed ("The purpose of the test is for students to get into college"--the SAT is used for a variety of purposes other than College Admissions; "Why should I have sympathy for people who take the test for their own personal gain"--everyone takes the test "for their own personal gain") and pointlessly provocative bravado ("... you should sue them. End of story.")

    While I'm obviously happy to discuss actual topic at hand, there is a limit to how many times I am willing to address the tired talking points of people who seem determined simply to take the discussion elsewhere ("tutors are bad because reasons") and to drag me along with them.
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  • jgoggsjgoggs 208 replies22 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    If you read my post citing the wasgingtonpost article @jgoggs you will see clear examples of adult test taker cheating. It seems like you must be reading right past it Bc it is plain for any knowledgeable person (to use your words) who knows what he is talking about (your words). It speaks about asian prep companies sending people to the us to take the test and memorize answers, monitoring sites where answers are discussed, taking the test in an earlier asian time zone and taking bathroom breaks to give out answers to clients in later time zones.

    @2018eastorwest, if you are referring to the paragraph in which Bob Schaeffer outlines his theories and speculations about how some cheating takes place, then no, I didn't see either evidence (of anything) or mention of adults. I saw conjecture and allusion to unspecified people of unspecified age.

    Now, that doesn't mean that adults are not involved in SAT cheating. Just last year, as you likely recall, federal law enforcement took down an international Chinese-American cheating operation that forged passports and sent imposter test-takers to sit the SAT in place of others. Were adults involved? Yes. Were adults test-takers involved? No.

    Recent cheating scandals in Asia have involved widespread leakage of test materials. The May 2013 test cancellation in Korea did not occur because adults were taking the SAT; it occurred because adults (almost certainly including adults within College Board and ETS's own distribution apparatus) got their hands on the test before test date and sold it all over Korea for their own profit.

    Can I say that no adult test-taker has ever been involved in cheating? No, of course not. But in the broader context of recent SAT cheating, this is simply a red herring--it is not an issue.
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  • hebegebehebegebe 2672 replies38 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    The purpose of the test is for students to get into college.
    Oh, what a wonderfully naive view of the world.

    The purpose of the test is to make money for College Board, so this "non-profit" can pay its CEO a 7-figure salary and generate an 8-figure "surplus". It scares their executives that the ACT has become so popular recently, and this must be stopped at all costs. If increasing revenue means making a test that is even less effective at discriminating between the moderately smart and truly intelligent, well sacrifices have to be made.
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  • jgoggsjgoggs 208 replies22 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
  • PlotinusPlotinus 939 replies19 threadsRegistered User Member
    @jgoggs

    Thanks for the link. I agree with just about everything that Bob Schaeffer says in the article, especially this:
    "The only way it could be about cheating is if they planned to recycle the March 5 SAT elsewhere."

    My crystal ball says 50% probability the US March 2016 test will be recycled as the International May 2016 test, and 90% probability it will be one among the May, Oct., Nov., Dec., and Jan. international tests.

    I bet international test prep companies are on their phones now lining up already registered students as spies.

    I agree with Schaeffer's point that it is unlikely CB is worried about messing up the curve of the first exam because if CB knows the ages of the people to cancel their registrations, it also could use the same ages to exclude those scores from the equating/curving process.

    I agree with this:
    What a legitimate test-prep firm does is not cheating. It’s short of where I would draw the line. But a company that obtained a copy of the exam before it was administered? That would be different.


    Finally, I agree with this:
    The notion of secrecy in the 21st century, where you can communicate an image or words around the globe in a blink of the eye, it just doesn’t exist.

    That's why CB should just not recycle tests. It's pretty easy to figure out.

    The article also suggests that the exclusion of adults is just for the March test. Is that what other people understand? And it will be possible for adults who are not students and not applying to college to sit the May test? Hey, I haven't taken the SAT since 1974. Sign me up. But not for the essay because I want to get the "pre-test" section. If fact, the "pre-test" section is the only one that REALLY interests me...!

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  • gettingschooledgettingschooled 1917 replies34 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    @jgoggs In your posts 12, 16, 19, 20, and 36 you outright say or imply the CB is nit honoring its own terms. Our point is that they are in fact allowed to do this. While you may not want to hear it, that does not make it untrue. Sorry.

    I am not a fan of CB. I am not defending them. I am telling you that they can do this if they want to.

    I fully believe the March test will be used internationally in May which is stupid on CBs part.

    I think you are very naive to believe that adult test takers are not involved in the cheating just because the incidents you have read about have not involved adult test takers.
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  • PlotinusPlotinus 939 replies19 threadsRegistered User Member
    "CB is nit honoring its own terms."

    I am not a lawyer, and I am not affected personally, but I could imagine someone might bring a lawsuit for age discrimination. As far as I understand, CB cancelled these registrations based on age alone. It did not cancel all registrations pending proof of intention to apply to college. Lots of young people take the SAT who are not going to use their SAT scores to apply to college. Some are forced to take the test by their schools during SAT Test Day. Some are going to apply to test optional schools. Some are going to use their ACT scores and not their SAT scores. Why did CB not ask all registrants for proof of intention to apply to college?

    Also, there could be (and probably are) school-age registrants who ARE taking the test for the test prep industry, and not to use to apply to college. Why did CB not cancel the registrations of younger SAT tutors/test prep industry employees?

    It looks to me that registrations were cancelled purely on the basis of age, not intended use.
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  • gcf101gcf101 2301 replies228 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    edited March 2016
    Even though I swore to stay away from this discussion, I can't help but add something to @Plotinus post (not to argue!).
    Katherine Levin, a spokeswoman for the organization, told The Chronicle on Monday that an internal analysis of registrants revealed "an unusually high number of people associated with a security risk," based in part on when — and how many times — they had taken the test.
    Somewhat linked to age, a frequency of test sittings of the March test registrants probably was a heavier deciding factor.
    edited March 2016
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  • fallenchemistfallenchemist 24269 replies860 threadsHonorary Super Mod Inactive
    I do not know why this thread was closed, as I see no particular reason to have done so. No closing note was posted. So I am reopening until and unless there is some explanation advanced. Perhaps it was done accidentally.
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  • PeriwinklePeriwinkle 3403 replies105 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    Looking at the guide to registering for SAT tests, there are restrictions on registration for test-takers who are over 21. https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/sat-registration-guide-students-2015-16.pdf

    The College Board likely has a good idea as to how many test takers over 21 use the SAT for admissions--after all, all the score reports are sent out through the CB. If there's a group of test takers over 21 who sit for the test frequently, but never send out scores, they can identify them.
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  • PlotinusPlotinus 939 replies19 threadsRegistered User Member
    The College Board likely has a good idea as to how many test takers over 21 use the SAT for admissions--If there's a group of test takers over 21 who sit for the test frequently, but never send out scores, they can identify them.

    But did College Board cancel the registrations only of people who sit the test frequently but never send out scores, or of all people over a certain age?

    For example, suppose I had registered for the March SAT. I have never sat the test since 1975, but I am over 21. This is something I might have done. Would my registration have been cancelled? If so, on what basis if not my age? What other criterion could there be?

    And what about people between 17 and 21 who sit the test frequently? There was a major scandal about an impersonation ring a few years ago in which the impersonators were college students. There are plenty of people between the ages of 17 and 21 who could be taking the test multiple times for purposes other than admission to college. Many people in that age range are fully qualified to be SAT tutors and are in fact working as SAT tutors. Why is it ok for them but not for the old folks? This looks like age discrimination.


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  • jgoggsjgoggs 208 replies22 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    @Periwinkle @Plotinus , I included a link to essentially the same information in my original post, all the way back on page 1, precisely to prove that adults are allowed to take the SAT. The restrictions, I would emphasize, are minimal: test-takers 21 and over must present government-issued IDs rather than student IDs and are not eligible for wait list status.

    Let me just add that regardless of whatever College Board representatives are telling the press, it simply is not true that only frequent test-takers had their registrations cancelled. It really seems to be pretty much everyone over 21, including people who haven't taken the test in many years and (per a small thread on Reddit) people who have never taken it before at all.
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