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SAT concordance table - compare old and new SAT scores

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Replies to: SAT concordance table - compare old and new SAT scores

  • KennyTKennyT Registered User Posts: 11 New Member
    Because the CDS data is based on 2016-17 applicants/admits, it is not useful for Class of 2017-18. Most of the schools are using the inaccurate concordance predictions, regardless of the fact that they have the actual data. Many keep using last year's data, notwithstanding the availability of current figures. I believe that the fact that the new SAT scores came out much lower than predicted led many schools to play games. Some examples. Chicago still hasn't and won't release its info until 3rd week of semester. Grinnell still has class of 2015 numbers. Wesleyan, Bowdoin, Carleton all play games and really suggest that the scores on the SAT were really the numbers predicted by the Concordance Table. When you compare their numbers with Princeton and Stanford's one would think Princeton and Stanford's middle 50 and medians are significantly below those schools. Moreover, some midwest states were hit hard by the political divide as described by this interesting article. http://kenyoncollegian.com/2017/04/13/political-divide-impacts-class-of-2021-admissions/ . In my view, this has led insecure administrators to try to hide the actual numbers until forced to do so. Having spent far too much time trying to decipher all of this, I am absolutely convinced that the new SAT scores in the 1300-1600 ranges will be significantly lower than the old, as much as 40-80 points.
  • homerdoghomerdog Registered User Posts: 1,412 Senior Member
    This is so messed up. So @KennyT , are you saying that 2018 kids (and maybe 2019 kids) are looking at inflated numbers because some schools are using the concordance table but, in reality, the numbers are much lower? Ugh!

    What about asking a school directly? S19 has tons of admissions reps coming for one hour presentations starting this week. He's going to two on Thursday. Maximum 50 kids per session but I think some have far fewer kids. Could he ask about the 75th percentile for the SAT last year? Wonder what they would say....
  • evergreen5evergreen5 Registered User Posts: 202 Junior Member
    edited September 12
    @homerdog Some colleges put the data right on their websites, but many have not updated yet with Class of 2021 stats. See, e.g., Carleton https://apps.carleton.edu/admissions/apply/requirements/profile/ (class of 2020 profile). It seems to me that individual college websites might be the only place to get New SAT data if the 2017-18 CDS should mix Old and New, with one set concorded to the other. If the CDS does that, it will be unhelpful where scores are concerned. In addition to college websites, there may be the random admissions blog or news article that includes New SAT numbers. It's hit-or-miss.
  • homerdoghomerdog Registered User Posts: 1,412 Senior Member
    edited September 12
    @evergreen5 I've seen that page on the Carleton site but it does not say it's using New SAT data on that bar graph. And it doesn't call out 75th percentile. All you can kind of see is that 3/4 of the enrolled kids who used an SAT score got above a 1400.
  • evergreen5evergreen5 Registered User Posts: 202 Junior Member
    @homerdog That's only because class of 2020 did not take the New SAT. Still, whether a college breaks out New and Old scores on its website will vary by school. A few schools have done so already and most of those are cited somewhere in this long thread. E.g., Vanderbilt, Williams.
  • homerdoghomerdog Registered User Posts: 1,412 Senior Member
    Davidson called out New SAT on their website. I guess the place for me to search is not common data sets, but the schools' websites.

    Davidson Class of 2021 New SAT
    CR-W 650-730 Math 640-730.

  • KennyTKennyT Registered User Posts: 11 New Member
    homerdog, that's exactly right. One good thing is that it's a bonus for class of 2018 high school grad who took the new SAT and now realize they did better than they thought.

    The only way to really know what a school's number are is to be very specific. Ask are the middle 50% numbers for class of 2020 or 2021; are they for admitted or enrolled; are they actual numbers or are they "concorded?" All of the more competitive schools that I have reviewed which have current data appear to have new SAT scores which are lower than the old SAT. The best comparison I've been able to make is to take their 2015-16 (pre new SAT) scores. That is pretty close to where the new SAT scores come in. An easy way to see is to look at Stanford and Princeton and compare to Bowdoin and Wesleyan. Here are the links.

    https://admission.princeton.edu/how-apply/admission-statistics
    http://admission.stanford.edu/apply/selection/profile.html
    http://www.bowdoin.edu/admissions/glance/index.shtml
    http://wesleyan.edu/admission/apply/classprofile.html

    If you compare Wes and Bowdoin's middle 50 to Stanford and Princeton's there is no question that they are using the faulty concorded numbers. Otherwise they are way more selective than Stanford and Princeton. I don't think so.

    If anyone is finding anything different, please share.
  • wisteria100wisteria100 Registered User Posts: 2,988 Senior Member
    @KennyT

    With regard to Bowdoin, I do see some funny business.

    From the 2016-2017 CDS which is class of 2020, they report these #'s for SAT mid -50 (enrolled students)
    CR 650-750
    M 640-760
    W 650-760

    Yet - when the 2020 class profile (enrolled students) was up on their website (2021 is up now) the numbers were higher
    CR 710-770
    M 690-770
    W 690-770

    Can't figure out why, but the website #'s seem too high
  • mdphd92mdphd92 Registered User Posts: 50 Junior Member
    edited September 12
    Both Bowdoin and Wesleyan are test-optional schools. Therefore, any of their applicants who perceived his or her SAT/ACT score to be low did not report that score. That caused the percentiles for those schools to be higher, since they are based only on submitted scores.

    The CollegeBoard concordance table essentially provided a self-fulfilling prophecy, since it gave the students some assessment (although it's apparently an erroneous one) of how good their score was and therefore whether to report it. In other words, students probably reported their new SAT scores only if the concordance table indicated they were high.
  • circuitridercircuitrider Registered User Posts: 2,432 Senior Member
    @mdphd92 wrote:
    Both Bowdoin and Wesleyan are test-optional schools. Therefore, any of their applicants who perceived his or her SAT/ACT score to be low did not report that score. That caused the percentiles for those schools to be higher, since they are based only on submitted scores.

    Can't speak for Bowdoin, but, Wesleyan requires all frosh to submit their scores once they decide to matriculate.
  • suzyQ7suzyQ7 Registered User Posts: 2,988 Senior Member
    @wisteria100 looks like Bowdoin did convert their new SAT based on concordance. See the CDS below... They even highlighted it in yellow. Also, u mention an over 90% stat of students submitting SAT or ACT at Bowdoin... Where did u see that. I'll look more closely but CDS says ~50% submitted for each test but many submit both and some submit none.. not sure if they provide the figure of % who don't submit either one.

    https://www.bowdoin.edu/ir/data/cds-table.shtml
  • am9799am9799 Registered User Posts: 684 Member
    edited September 12
    Sorry but those numbers for Bowdoin and Wesleyan are just crazy.
  • wisteria100wisteria100 Registered User Posts: 2,988 Senior Member
    @suzyQ7 yeah the Bowdoin CDS does say they convert the SAT scores, but the thing is that was the CDS for class of 2020, and the new SAT didn't start until March of 2016, so that class wouldn't be taking that new version. Right?
    As for the 90% number, I know I heard it somewhere, but when pressed I can't recall the source. But I do think looking at the numbers for Wes and Bowdoin, that it is a very high percentage submitting. If you look at schools like Midd, Swat, Colby that require scores, the CDS % for submitters of both tests added together range from about 109 to 116. So while there is some overlap of kids submitting both tests, it's not all that high. So if Bowdoin and Wes are reporting approx 95% for both combined, there may be some overlap, but probably not more than 10-15 points.
  • KennyTKennyT Registered User Posts: 11 New Member
    Swat's numbers for class of 2021 were recently posted. They show 1370-1540 for their middle 50%. Although they do not specify if it is for enrolled or admitted, it is almost certainly admitted, not enrolled. Otherwise, they are just 10 points under Princeton's 1380-1540, which I think we can agree is highly unlikely. Moreover, the 16-17 CDS shows 1305-1530 for enrolled students. While it is unclear if they are using the Concordance or not, these numbers are probably a pretty good indicator of an honest range for the top LAC's. Again, Wes, Bowdoin, et. al., have some explaining to do. Regardless of whether they are test optional, no way those are actual numbers.

    http://www.swarthmore.edu/sites/default/files/assets/documents/admissions-aid/2017 Fact Sheet.pdf .
  • KennyTKennyT Registered User Posts: 11 New Member
    BTW, Colby also reflects lower new SAT scores. https://www.colby.edu/admission/college-profile/
    Middle 50-percent Old SAT scores 1350-1520
    Middle 50-percent New SAT scores 1330-1510

    Not dramatically lower but the Concordance table predicted the old 1350-1520 would result in a new SAT of 1410-1540. That's a big dif.

    Again, I've yet to see new scores that are higher than old.
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