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Taking A Deep Dive Into the College Board’s New Adversity Score

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Replies to: Taking A Deep Dive Into the College Board’s New Adversity Score

  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger 2645 replies137 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 2,782 Senior Member
    edited June 9
    ^This proves my point. If half the kids get FA, then half don't. There's not many high schools, rich enough to where colleges could admit a random student with a 50% probability the student would be full pay. That's before you look at whether the 50% BS admit to an elite college is a legacy or donor's kid.
    edited June 9
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  • jule009jule009 16 replies6 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 22 Junior Member
    I personally can definitely see how this would be effective, although it does bring up a lot of questions. It makes me wonder how they'll calculate it. I have a bad feeling that people who are not disadvantaged may find ways to manipulate the system depending on the ways in which it's made, and I don't know how effective this could be. I feel like if you want to compare all possible disadvantages, there could be a lot. Would it include mental/physical/chronic illnesses? I definitely think it's a great idea, but the actual execution of the idea I fear won't be as good as people hope it to be. But yeah, people who are really dealing with a lot more should be given greater chances -- they've had to work through harder situations to get in the same place as others.
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  • ninakatarinaninakatarina 1593 replies44 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,637 Senior Member
    My kid's high school had over half the class receiving free or reduced price meals. It was also a magnet. Some of the magnet kids came from very poor backgrounds, a few did not. And some very few kids from the neighborhood were from the strip of waterfront properties on the edge of our zone, where million dollar houses with matching yachts are not uncommon. Most waterfront kids go to private schools, but a couple didn't. One was a dumbass and trouble maker and I'm pretty sure his parents would have lied about his socioeconomic status to get him into college, if he hadn't surprised us all and decided to go into the Navy.
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  • RustyTrowelRustyTrowel 108 replies5 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 113 Junior Member
    Remember, CB is the same organization that brought us the CSS Profile. So let's stop calling CB's new score an "Adversity Score", and start calling it what it really is: a "Projected EFC" tier score based on the projected financial standing (projected assets and income) of the student's family. Think for a moment about just how much data CB has. It would not be hard to distill the historical CSS Profile data already on file (wealth, broadly defined) into a Projected Family Financial Strength metric that would nearly perfectly correlate to actual EFC when viewed on a portfolio basis. I'll bet CB has enough data to get an accurate P-EFC tier score down to the street level in many communities. Now look at this from the perspective of the typical 'need-aware' school. Imagine that you are the one who is responsible for deciding between admitting one of two URMs, each of whom has similar apps, except one is P-EFC tier 46 and the other is P-EFC tier 61. It won't be long before the schools will know what a delta of 15 P-EFC tier points means in terms of revenue to the school. From the school's perspective, could you afford not to use this information? Really? Most schools do not have an endowment large enough to allow them to make need-unaware decisions. Heck, you might even start to reconsider that policy about not requiring the SAT for admissions...which was CB's objective all along.
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  • collegemomjamcollegemomjam 1881 replies1 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,882 Senior Member
    I just think this conversation and the many others like it continue to prove we will never have a system that is entirely fair and maybe we should just accept it and move on. We all have our own personal stories about how we or our children or friends' children were "unfairly" treated in the college admissions process. I work with lots of kids in college admissions and overall I feel like the decisions made by the colleges are pretty "fair"....the kids with the higher scores and better grades are the ones getting into the better colleges. Yes there are athletes and legacies and URMs getting in with lower stats here and there, but overall, I feel like the results are directionally correct. And most kids, no matter what your status/background, get rejected from the top tier schools and probably would still get rejected if we didn't have adversity scores or AA, or whatever. When colleges have a single digit acceptance rate, it's almost like saying it's not fair that you didn't win the lottery.

    This process will never be fair and no matter how we change things there will be winners and losers, people that get more of a bump than they deserve and people that get hurt in the process more than they deserve. But the kids in the latter scenario, especially if they have money, can still achieve great things at the universities that are lucky enough to get them.
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  • EconPopEconPop 37 replies2 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 39 Junior Member
    edited June 13
    When colleges have a single digit acceptance rate, it's almost like saying it's not fair that you didn't win the lottery.
    ...
    most kids, no matter what your status/background, get rejected from the top tier schools
    @collegemomjam , I thought maybe I was the only person who felt that way.

    It's amazing that kids and parents want to blame minority students for "stealing" an acceptance from them. Most of the top schools have an African-American enrollment of 2%-8%. That equates to approximately 125 accepted students in a freshman class of 2500 at a university with a total undergraduate enrollment of 10,000.

    It seems to me more time ought to be devoted to figuring out why those who did not get in could not beat out the other 95% of accepted freshmen. Or better yet, simply realize that a school that accepts only 7% of all applicants just might not accept your child -- through no fault of your child, and certainly no fault of the students who were offered admission.


    edited June 13
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  • collegemom9collegemom9 704 replies22 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 726 Member
    @roethlisburger My son will be attending a top 20 school (well top 21 to be specific) and was in the top 25% of his class. He is neither rich nor an athlete. He is smart with an excellent GPA and scores. He just happens to attend a school where the majority of the kids are VERY smart. This is why our school no longer ranks. High schools are moving away from class rank because it tells so little about it's students. The school profile gives much more information. Colleges are not going to start demanding that high schools go back to ranking its students.
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  • collegemomjamcollegemomjam 1881 replies1 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,882 Senior Member
    @EconPop I couldn't agree more. Especially the part about it not being the fault of any of the children...the ones denied and the ones accepted.

    The constant complaining about how unfair it is to get the coveted spots at the most elite schools diminishes the perception of the value of the colleges that are accepting the Ivy-esque rejects. But the reality is these "second tier" schools are amazing and can offer students amazing educational opportunities and position them well for amazing careers.
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  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger 2645 replies137 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 2,782 Senior Member
    edited June 13
    @collegemom9

    First, we have to define rich. Rich to me means you are close to full pay. That seems to be, depending on the school, where your combined household gross income plus combined taxable interest/dividend/rental income is about $225k for a married couple. The calculations in cases of divorce get more complicated. What percentage of kids in your son's high school class met my definition of rich? Admitting students from rich high schools is a good way to ensure a college gets a high number of full pay or almost full pay students, while pretending to be need blind.
    edited June 13
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  • Helen13Helen13 79 replies3 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 82 Junior Member
    I read the article and the metrics the adversity score includes.

    From what I can tell, the colleges are already getting this information from the high school counselor or principal via the mandatory "school report."

    My daughter applied to colleges as a freshman for the 2018-2019 admissions year and will start at Amherst College.

    She is a high school dropout so I had no college counselor to write her school report.

    What I did, instead, was write about the statistics of our one and only local public school, and how her grades, classes, and test scores compared. I wrote about the racial and economic makeup of our town, as well as the percentage of college graduates.

    The reason I included this information is I had no idea what a school report was. I called the high school guidance counselor who was of no help. So I started calling the admissions departments of the various colleges. They told me what they wanted to see.

    Now, they have never heard of our little town. At schools that are recognizable, such as Thoms Jefferson or St. Paul's, adcomms have a very good idea of where applicants stand against each other, and they have essays and CSS Profile forms to give a very detailed idea of financial situations.

    Seems to me this just boils down the high school report so that it's easy to compare. I also think it's a marketing ploy to make the SAT more competitive against the ACT, to which it's losing ground.

    Kids on each coast take the SAT. The ones in the middle take the ACT, which is often state-mandated for high school graduation.

    I expect this furor will only cause middle-class families to abandon the SAT.

    But colleges are still getting this type of information directly from your high school guidance counselor, just like they always have.

    Don't think that just because you avoid the College Board, that the colleges won't see similar information and compare your student to the community.
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  • collegemom9collegemom9 704 replies22 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 726 Member
    @roethlisburger We are not rich nor are we even close to full pay. We received a considerable amount of FA. More than a substantial amount. The other person admitted to my son’s school for our HS is also not full pay. He worked at a grocery store to support his family during high school. Many colleges are done looking at class rank because it tells you close to nothing about the student. My 25% percentile kid with a 5.6 out of 6 GPA could move across the street and go to a different HS and be in the top 2% with his grades.
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  • collegemom9collegemom9 704 replies22 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 726 Member
    And FWIW the town we live in is very diverse so you’d be taking a real crap shot if you’re thinking you’re accepting a full pay kid.
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  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger 2645 replies137 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 2,782 Senior Member
    @collegemom9

    The College Board is going to report a SAT class rank for each high school. Technically, they're only reporting the 25%, 50%, and 75% values, but with that information it's a trivial statistics problem to calculate your kid's SAT percentile rank for their high school.
    https://professionals.collegeboard.org/environmental-context-dashboard/detailed-data-description
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