Brown/Princeton or UVA full ride?

Middleclass
Sat, 05 Nov 2011 13:23:04 +0000

My intent was to give honest feedback to Orangebrigade and can only provide this from my children’s and my experiences - others may have different opinions based on their experiences & background.
It seemed that most posters here were giving a knee-jerk recommendation to go to UVA based primarily on the cost & UVA’s reputation. My point is that Princeton’s cost may not be as much as you think in subsequent years. UVA will end up costing us far more in total than Princeton; and what if you drop out of your sport - will you lose your athletic scholarship?

I figured that some UVA fans might criticize my comments, but Sevmom - I think you have exaggerated them. I never said the entire student body is racist and that all teaching is incompetent. But we had certain expectations about UVA and it has not quite lived up to them.

The cultural issues turned out to be a big surprise and shock. My daughter wanted, and we encouraged her, to go out-of-state to experience other cultures. She has observed some of the UVA (southern?) culture with a mix of amusement, pleasure, and occasional distaste. She loves the young men’s chivalry, is not a member of the Greek system (too expensive, too exclusive) but is participating indirectly via her friends and enjoying that.

In my criticism of the teaching, I forgot about another incident - so there have actually been 3 problem instructors (serious problems, not just typical small problems) – all were grad students who were the PRIMARY INSTRUCTORS of the course, not just TA’s. This bothers me greatly, as we expected better from such a top-ranked public. The first was a nasty Econ teacher (a grad student) who criticized and yelled at the students if they asked questions. She did not follow the syllabus that all other instructors did - made up her own. Everyone was failing the course, and I could go on with details, but one example: D went to her office hours & asked her for more practice problems and was told to make up her own problems! We hired a tutor for her (another grad student who was himself an instructor of another section of the same course.) He could not make sense of the exams she was given - enough said.

That same semester, her French teacher was a 22-yr old grad student, first year teaching. She seemed barely adequate, and daughter did OK. But the following semester, when D took the next course in the sequence (with an absolutely FABULOUS prof), it became clear that she was woefully unprepared. The Prof noticed that all the students who were taught by that grad student for the previous course had missed large amounts of material and were not able to keep up. Again, intensive remedial action was necessary to avoid failure. Could not say enough about how GREAT that 2nd Prof was!
3rd semester of French: given another incompetent grad student! Luckily she was able to immediately switch to another section and this instructor - grad student again is much better.

I am really hoping that she does not encounter too many more of these situations as she gets into upper level classes. But again, I am very dismayed & disappointed, based on both the $50k price tag & UVA’s rankings.

My intent is not to malign UVA, but for the sake of honesty, I felt it important to mention to Orangebrigade (not knowing his/her ethnicity, orientation, background, etc.) that it is not a very diverse school. My daughter’s comment to me (via text) near the end of her 1st year, was “I have never met so many conservative, narrow-minded, homophobic, & racist people as I have here.” Wow - what a strong statement! And yet, she has found plenty of people who DON’T fit that description to be friends with. Again, her impressions must be viewed through the lens of her background & prior experience growing up in a liberal northeast/midatlantic part of the country, attending a very diverse public high school. Others might have a different point of view. And all things considered, she LOVES being at UVA!

Her brother visited her for a weekend at UVA and noticed some of this culture as well. And he has visited his friends at their colleges (U of Del, NYU, U of MD, Penn, & spent a summer at USC) and did not find this aspect. By contrast, at Princeton, the spoiled, arrogant son of bilionaire Meg Whitman was kicked out of his eating club by the students themselves for making racist remarks. Academically, professors are great & are expected to be available to the students; they form close relationships. Had only one instance of a sub-par Prof, but the students in the class organized themselves, presented complaints to the administration, and had them addressed!

A previous poster, jkiwmom, has lots of VERY good advice & info about UVA for Orangebrigade, and I agree whole heartedly with most everything she said.

Bottom line, it’s important to consider many aspects of a college, not just the price tag!