<p>For my ED application I couldn't decide between Brown and Columbia...My prospective majors are Math and Engineering. I think we should keep NYC vs. Providence thing out of this comparison cauz it doesn't really make sense. In terms of reputation, undergrad teaching, community etc. which one would you suggest me applying...Thanks...</p>
<p>This comes down to core vs. open curriculum...</p>
<p>Reputation wise, Columbia wins hands down.
Brown is a fine school, a lot of my friends go there... but there's a bit of a "free-spirit" vibe to it whereas Columbia is very "intense", sometimes to an extent that it seems like all the kids do are study. (which is not true judging by the parties going on last night)</p>
<p>Also in terms of graduate school placement, Columbia wins.</p>
<p>I saw you're interested in Engineering.
Columbia SEAS is the second highest ranked Ivy league engineering program (after cornell). Second lowest acceptance rate among all engineering schools in the country (all except MIT). However, Columbia's engineering school is also infused with the Core... so a LOT of engineers eventually become bankers/lawyers/doctors.</p>
<p>*<em>Concerns about Columbia: Isolated four years (As a result of intense core and not-really-a-college-town setting) , TA's dominancy in Undergrad level, many posts about Admins not caring Undergrads...
*</em>Concerns about Brown: Reputation and Grad school placement</p>
<p>When it comes to my chances of getting in, I even think that it is going to be tougher for Brown since they don't really seperate their Engineering admissions so the overall rate is around %12 whereas it is %19-%20 for Columbia SEAS. Thank you very much for your help...=))</p>
<p>"Columbia SEAS is the second highest ranked Ivy league engineering program (after cornell). Second lowest..."</p>
<p>But isn't Columbia SEAS's national rank in the mid 20s (as opposed to a top ten ranking for Cornell)?</p>
Yeah, you're right. I mean, Brown is ONLY in the top 0.33% of all colleges...its reputation must be truly horrible. </p>
<p>Last time I checked, Columbia and Brown were ranked #11 and #15 in math, respectively. Undoubtedly that makes a huge difference in reputation and graduate school placement!</p>
<p>:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Well, I mean it's not like Brown is thaaat bad. Jesus, some of my friends would've dreamed to go to Brown. Nevertheless, yes, if I could choose, I would pick Columbia simply because of reputation, and that I like the NYC location. In the end, though, they're both Ivies; nothing to complain about.</p>
<p>Nothing wrong with pickin' straws :)</p>
<p>Or a coin flip, if you're fresh out of straws.</p>
"Columbia SEAS is the second highest ranked Ivy league engineering program (after cornell). Second lowest..."</p>
<p>But isn't Columbia SEAS's national rank in the mid 20s (as opposed to a top ten ranking for Cornell)?
Right, but there are no other Ivy league engineering programs between these two.</p>
<p>it's not factual that columbia beats brown in graduate school placement. for medical school, business school, and law school, brown is more successful by numbers. for all other types of grad school, no such data exists. for major fellowships, including fulbrights, rhodes, marshall, and truman, brown is also more successful. in all cases, the differences are marginal however and shouldn't weigh into your consideration.</p>
<p>more important is the trade off between core/fu school vs open curriculum.
the advantage of the core/fu is self-evident i think to students who want that. the advantage of the open curriculum is the ability to have much more freedom outside of your engineering requirements.</p>
<p>other positives at brown: all professors are required to teach undergraduates (including nobel laureates, former presidents, etc.)
one of the best applied math departments in the country
**Concerns about Columbia: Isolated four years (As a result of intense core and not-really-a-college-town setting) , TA's dominancy in Undergrad level, many posts about Admins not caring Undergrads...
<p>First, there is no "dominancy" of TA's in undergrad classes. You will not have any problem getting small classes or contact with profs at Columbia in either math or engineering. There is also plenty of social life, and the core doesn't isolate people, it brings them together, since every first and second year student is taking some of the same classes and reading the same things at the same time. As for the administration, it is not particularly friendly. I don't think that makes a lot of difference in most students' lives, however.</p>
<p>By engineering and math, do you really mean applied math? If so, Brown is excellent in applied math. If you mean pure math, Columbia is better, and if you really do mean engineering, Columbia will probably give you more research opportunities.</p>
<p>If you're not considering Providence vs NYC, then it really comes down to curriculum and what type of student body each attracts. I doubt for grad school it will make much difference one way or the other, but you should look for the undergrad experience you think you will get the most out of based on the kind of person and student you are. If you really don't want the core curriculum, I wouldn't choose Columbia because of some theoretical advantage in getting into grad school.</p>
<p>Thank you all for sharing your precious ideas. They all really helped.
I have couple of friends in Columbia and just one in Brown. What I learnt from them about the student life is that Columbia really sucks in that mannner. They mostly hang out in groups of 3-4 and all the students are widely spread all over NYC. Since Columbia tries to maintain variety by International students (over %20) , people mostly get isolated within small groups. Whereas in Brown people mostly claim that they know every single kid in their class and they have that spirit. (Athletics might be a small reason as well)
By looking at the open-curriculum and all those social stuff, I think my decision should be applying Brown and hoping to get in. BUT still I am concerned about what I will be doing just after 4 years. (In Brown I am sure going to have lovely 4 years but what about 5th year) As far as I could understand from your posts, it seems to me like there is not that big of a difference between these schools. Thanks a lot once again to all tried to help...</p>
<p>Btw what about Double Majoring in both schools..(Is it possible in Columbia?)
And in columbia is it possible to change your major to a non-engineering one?</p>
<p>One other question: What is the difference between Dual Degree and Double Major?</p>
<p>If you like Brown better, apply there. The difference in prestige/placement is minimal at best. Besides, as the common wisdom goes, if you aren't happy at your school, you're less likely to do well, and GPA/other achievements will matter a lot more for placement than where you went, esp. when both schools are top schools in the nation. </p>
<p>Of course, you don't HAVE to apply anywhere ED, and if you aren't sure, maybe it would be a good idea not to.</p>
You are right but i have to decide eventually so why not now? =)) Thanks to all...</p>
<p>matheywyy: Have you visited both schools? Stayed overnight? If so, than, sure, decide now. But if not, having more time might give you the chance to find out more about the two schools (and maybe some other schools) and make better decision.</p>
<p>I have visited them both..but couldnt stay overnight...i have seen their information sessions as well....still it doesnt help that much since most of those stuff doesnt really reflect reality...</p>
<p>The prestige difference is non-existent. I went to Columbia and transferred after a year, 100% due to the social life and student experience. Brown actually does better according to the numbers when it comes to graduate placement. My bet is a lot of this has to do with greater undergrad focus. Choosing Columbia for the myth of greater prestige would be a mistake in my opinion.</p>
<p>@slipper1234 You seem to have some experiences that might help. At columbia what was wrong with the student life? It is one of my concerns...=))</p>
<p>And btw what about the security of Providence? Is it an urban creepy town? Or is it more like a university town? Thanks</p>