Dartmouth vs UC Berkeley

Alexandre
Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:44:57 +0000

TheThoughtProcess, those 4 criteria are definitely important, but as you obviously point out, they cannot be measured with any degree of accuracy. And even if one could magically assign accurate measures to those 4 criteria, how would we interpret them? SAT scores are very much a function of reporting style and philosophy. If an elite state university changed its approach to SATs to the way a private elite approaches SATs, its mean would increase by a small but noticeable margin (at least 80 points, probably closer to 100 points). The fact is, state universities deemphasize standardized tests. One example I often use is Michigan. Until 2003, Michigan used a formula which has since been discontinued. That formula awarded more points to a 3.9 student with a 1200 SAT score than to a 3.8 student with a 1600 SAT score. You tell me, how hard was a Michigan student going to prepare for the SAt knowing that a 1360 on the SAT would yield exactly as many points as a 1600 on the SAT and that a 0.1 point improvement in GPA would count more than a 400 point improvement on the SAT? This attitude is pounded into Michigan kids ever since they enter high school, even today because even now, Michigan refuses to take standardized tests seriously. SAT/ACT is nothing, GPA is everything.

But at the end of the day, those 4 criteria aren’t measurable, and even if they were, they only represent 4 of more than a dozen or so equally important criteria, which include among others, quality of faculty, breadth and depth of curriculum, cutting-edge research availlable to undergrads, institution reputation in academic and professional circles, loyalty and influence of alumni network, intellectual atmosphere on and off campus, quality of computer centers, libraries and labs, preponderance of artisitic, political, social, athletic and educational events on and off campus etc…

I find it very funny that all the experts and high-level academics/intellectuals (Fiske, Gourman, Gerhard Casper, the thousands of Peer Assessers of the USNWR etc…) and major recruiters at exclusive companies agree that Cal and Michigan are among the top undergraduate institutions in the US but somehow, a small group of people on this forum insist that those two publics are somehow inferior to their private peers.