<p>What are the strengths and weaknesses of each for an african-american female who is majoring in iether pre-pharmacy or public polcy???</p>
<p>anyone there?</p>
<p>I would be willing to bet Purdue has the smallest Af.Am population.</p>
<p>maybe in percentage but not in sheer number, also they have a great cultural center and numerous wonderful support services for african-american more so than any of the other schools mentioned, but back to original thread topic,!</p>
<p>Duke is the strongest academically, Public Policy is one of its most popular majors. </p>
<p>UNC and Michigan are also great schools.</p>
<p>Dunno much about Purdue. </p>
<p>Both UNC and Duke have been considered among the best colleges in America for African Americans.</p>
<p>Sounds like you made up your mind.</p>
<p>UNC’s pharmacy school is ranked very high; their public policy program is also very strong as is Duke’s public policy. Don’t know that it makes any difference that you’re African American and/or female. UNC has ~17,000 undergraduates and is 60% female; African American percentage is something like ~13%. (Class of 2006 percentage 12.32) </p>
<p>It’s a great school, beautiful campus, very diverse, and great academics. Duke, is obviously a top school, too; however, the feel of these 2 schools–only 8 miles apart–differ greatly. Be sure and visit both. You might want to post this question on the specific university boards, too.</p>
<p>Also, The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education consistently ranks “UNC first among public universities in nationwide measures of institutional racial integration, including recruitment of black faculty and students.”</p>
<p>In terms of overall undergraduate education, Duke and Michigan are strongest, UNC isn’t far behind and Purdue is the weakest but still highly regarded.</p>
<p>For Public Policy, Duke, Michigan and UNC all have very highly regarded, top 10 programs. Purdue isn’t really known for having a good Public Policy program.</p>
<p>I am not sure about pre-pharmacy, but Michigan, Purdue and UNC all have top 5 Pharmacy schools. Michigan has a preferred-admission program. Those admitted are guarateed a spot in the Pharmacy school when they complete their undergraduate studies, if they graduate with a 3.0 GPA. I wouldn’t be surprised if Purdue and UNC had similar admissions programs. I don’t think Duke has a Pharmacy school.</p>
<p>Most good universities (all 4 schools you are considering are good) are going to have diverse and tolerant student bodies that are welcoming to and accepting of diversity. However, the communities surrounding those universities aren’t all equally as welcoming. I would say, from my limited exposure, that Ann Arbor and Chapel Hill probably embrace diversity more readily than Durham or West Lafayette.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, that seems to be a fairly biased assessment. Certainly, Duke, UNC, and Michigan would all be very strong in terms of “overall undergraduate education.” Between the 2 publics, Michigan is a lot larger than UNC, which may or may not be appealing to you. For an out-of-state applicant, UNC is probably the most difficult to gain acceptance (since they admit only ~18% out-of-state). </p>
<p>UNC’s School of Pharmacy is actually ranked #3 in the nation. Average GPA for Pharmacy School admitted students is 3.5. Here’s a link that tells you a little more about that: <a href=“http://www.pharmacy.unc.edu/admissions/pharmd/how-to-apply/faq[/url]”>http://www.pharmacy.unc.edu/admissions/pharmd/how-to-apply/faq</a></p>
<p>I agree with you Jack. UNC is awesome…and very selective for out-of-state applicants. It is the only undergraduate institution that turned me down. Considering that I was admitted into 4 Ivy League schools, Cal, Chicago, Duke, Georgetown, Michigan and Northwestern, that’s saying a lot. </p>
<p>If you read my post, I clearly say that UNC isn’t far behind Duke and Michigan in terms of overall undergraduate education. I do believe that Duke and Michigan have a slight edge, but it is negligible.</p>
<p>Michigan’s public policy program is housed in the brand new Gerald Ford School of Public Policy ( <a href=“http://www.fordschool.umich.edu/[/url]”>www.fordschool.umich.edu/</a> ). The BA program is new and is so popular that it is not accepting transfer students from other universities initially.</p>
<p>In terms of student body strength, this is not close. Duke is at the level of HYPSM while the others statistically lag far behind. For example, consider SAT scores:</p>
<p>Duke (1465)</p>
<p>U Michigan (1315)
U North Carolina (1290)</p>
<p>Purdue (1145)</p>
<p>Duke is head and shoulders above the others. U Michigan and U North Carolina are close to one another, but they are as far behind Duke as they are ahead of Purdue.</p>
<p>For rankings without the subjective Peer Assessment score:</p>
<p>3 Duke</p>
<p>28 U North Carolina
34 U Michigan</p>
<p>60+ Purdue</p>
<p>If you have the chance to go to Duke, this is an obvious choice unless there are non-academic factors (cost, racial diversity, good football team, etc.) driving the decision. </p>
<p>Some other numbers that might be useful for you include:</p>
<p>Racial Diversity for % of students who are Black/Non-Hispanic:</p>
<p>12% U North Carolina
9% Duke
7% U Michigan
4% Purdue</p>
<p>% of females on campus</p>
<p>60% U North Carolina
52% U Michigan
49% Duke
41% Purdue</p>
<p>Why don’t you just wait and see where you get in? All four are fine schools.</p>
<p>hawkette: While Duke is obviously ranked higher than the other schools and, by all accounts, clearly offers a stellar education, the education it offers is honestly not that superior to UNC’s. Most people in NC, if not elsewhere, know this.</p>
<p>I know folks (most especially on CC) love to quote SAT scores to somehow prove that the quality of the student body with the higher average SAT score is obviously superior and, as a result, will offer up deep intellectual conversations in small classes that these other schools won’t, but I’m here to tell you that the quality of the overall education one will receive from UNC and from Duke is not vastly different. Michigan also has an excellent reputation, and I suspect the quality of education is similar. Alexandre knows more about that than anyone here, so he can discuss that aspect. </p>
<p>My daughter has attended classes at both UNC and at Duke. While Duke’s classes are smaller, she did not think they were in any way “better” than the courses at UNC. (In fact, in one of her classes at Duke, she was stunned at the final exam that there were so many people who were actually in the class. They rarely showed up before the final exam.) While the academics and faculty at Duke are excellent, they are equally so at UNC. </p>
<p>Plenty of students who are accepted to Duke are also accepted to UNC; the choice of which to attend is very personal. The feel of these 2 schools is very, very different. I would never encourage anyone to choose one over the other, simply based on rankings and average SAT scores, without the person visiting first.</p>
<p>Duke has a strong public policy program, as does UNC. Duke does not have a pharmacy school; UNC does, and it is ranked #3 in the nation. Others have commented on Michigan’s public policy program, and doesn’t Michigan have a pharmacy school ranked #4?</p>
<p>At any rate, not many people I know would turn around for the difference in overall quality of education (which is what we were discussig) between Duke and UNC. The choice of which to attend (certainly for those who live in NC) is really dependent on so much more.</p>
<p>Again, I would encourage the OP to visit all these schools first, and ask a lot of questions.</p>
<p>This seems to be a moot point, anyway. After looking at the OP’s past posts, looks like she plans on applying to Duke ED. Again, (to the OP) I hope you’ve visited (and you’re not dependent on financial aid). Good luck!</p>
<p>Hawkette, since Duke (and other private elites) and state schools report SAT scores differently and students enrolled at Duke (and other private elites) prepare for the SAT differently than students at public schools, I think it is wiser and fairer to compare ACT scores rather than SAT scores. </p>
<p>Mid 50% ACT ranges and means:</p>
<p>Duke: 29-33 (mean 31)
Brown: 27-33 (mean (30)
Columbia: 28-32 (mean 30)
Cornell: 28-32 (mean 30)
Michigan:27-31 (mean 29)
UNC 26-30 (mean 28)</p>
<p>Each point on the ACT is roughly equal to 30-40 points on the SAT. So I would say in real terms, the mean SAT score at Duke is roughly 60-80 points higher than the mean SAT score at Michigan and roughly 90-120 points higher than the mean SATscore at UNC. </p>
<p>And leaving out the Peer Assessment score from the equation is also unwise as it is a direct reflection of what academe thinks of undergraduate institutions. And since industrial sentiment general mirrors academe’s sentiment, the peer assessment score is also a good indication of what the corporate world thinks of undergraduate institutions too.</p>
<p>The fact is, Duke and Michigan are peers (both are top 15 universities, neither is a top 5 university), UNC is very close to both in terms of quality of education and reputation. Your low opinion of Michigan and UNC is, fortunately, not shared by the educated and professional elites.</p>
<p>jack,
You may have interpreted my comments as anti-UNC or anti-U Michigan, but really they were meant to be pro-Duke. Both U Michigan and U North Carolina are excellent state universities and probably there are a lot of similarities between these two colleges from their student body quality to their student life to their postgraduate opportunities. For the right student, either of these schools could be an excellent choice for where to spend four years for undergraduate.</p>
<p>My feelings on Duke are much, much stronger as Duke is truly one of the very finest colleges in America. I believe that the students are the equal of any in the country. As I have said elsewhere, I believe that if Duke and Stanford were to switch locations, the expression would be HYPDM rather than HYPSM. </p>
<p>Re your comment, </p>
<p>“Plenty of students who are accepted to Duke are also accepted to UNC”</p>
<p>this makes total sense as there is likely a large overlap of applicants. However, for in-state students, I suspect that there are many students accepted to U North Carolina who are not accepted at Duke. </p>
<p>For the OP, in terms of potential acceptance to these schools, I would make the following guesses on the IS and OOS admission rates (which are not broken out publicly by U Michigan and U North Carolina):</p>
<p>20% Duke</p>
<p>20-25% OOS U North Carolina</p>
<p>40% OOS U Michigan</p>
<p>50% IS U North Carolina</p>
<p>65% IS U Michigan</p>
<p>85% Purdue</p>
<p>Alexandre,
Much as you would like to promote the idea that your alma mater is a peer school to Duke, it is not. Statistically, U Michigan is on par with NYU, Boston College, and William & Mary and ranks among the top 30-40 schools nationally. U Michigan is not a Top 15 university anywhere but in the Midwest.</p>
<p>hawkette:</p>
<p>Actually, I should have clarified my earlier comment, “Plenty of students who are accepted to Duke are also accepted to UNC.” I was actually referring to top NC students (key word here is top). You are incorrect thinking this is not the case for NC students-- again, these would be the top NC students. Most all apply to both and are accepted to both. The choice of which to attend (not including financials) really is very personal and not what you might automatically predict. </p>
<p>Again, Duke is clearly a top school by all accounts. I don’t think anyone is disputing that. However, the “overall quality of education” is simply on a par with that of UNC. The <em>top</em> students at UNC (from NC and from out of state) are academically comparable to Duke students–easily. I would also not turn around for the difference in quality of faculty at these 2 schools. The real differences between them have nothing to do with the quality of the education, which is superb at both.</p>
<p>I also think those acceptance rates you guessed at are not correct. I’ve seen those listed somewhere. I’ll see if I can find them again.</p>
<p>jack,
I agree with your comment about top students and the IS application and matriculation patterns. There are clearly some very, very good IS students at U North Carolina and I certainly agree that they would rightly make a choice based on fit. </p>
<p>As for the overall quality of education, while accepting that a student can get an excellent education at either Duke or U North Carolina (and the same for U Michigan and Purdue), I would compare them on the four key metrics that I believe determine the excellence of a university’s undergraduate offering:</p>
<p>1) Quality of the student body
2) Size and nature of the classroom
3) Quality and nature of the instruction
4) Institutional resources and the willingness to use them to support undergraduates</p>
<p>On 1,2,and 4, I would contend that Duke has the strongest record. On #3, academics might rate Duke and U North Carolina (and U Michigan) as peers with Purdue modestly behind.</p>
<p>hawkette:</p>
<p>I would agree with #4. Absolutely.</p>
<p>The overall student body of ~6500 at a highly selective private university will be academically strong, across the board-- than that of <em>all</em> students at a public university of ~17,000 undergraduates --for obvious reasons. That said, there are enough academically top students at both UNC (and Michigan), that makes the classroom experience comparable. UNC also has a strong honors program that ensures very small classes among top students; however, that’s not the only time one experiences classes like that.</p>
<p>Also, Duke will always have smaller classes; however, I don’t know that this necessarily equates to a superior classroom environment. Does it? That said, UNC also has its share of small classes-- from the UNC-CH website:</p>
<p>50% of classes have 20 or fewer students
71.3% of classes have fewer than 30 students
25% of undergraduates participate in research</p>