OOS Students and the Public State Universities

Alexandre
Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:02:33 +0000

“That’s simply a false statement. First of all, Duke, Northwestern, Wash U and Chicago are “elite” private schools while JHU, Emory and Rice are simply “good” private schools. You can’t group these schools together as if they are all equally desirable. MIT, Stanford and HYP are MUCH MORE DESIRABLE than the remaining Ivies.”

Ringoffire, I agree that Emory is not quire elite. I am not sure how you figure that Chicago, Duke, Northwestern and WUSTL are better than Johns Hopkins or Rice. They aren’t.

“Out of the remaining Ivies, I would say that only Columbia has more national appeal than Duke or Northwestern for instance. Heck, most students haven’t even heard of Penn, Cornell or Dartmouth. The reason these bottom feeder Ivies have such high yields is because they get bombarded by applicants who live in the Northeast that have a strong bias towards these schools. Applicants from California will view Duke and Penn equally I believe.”

I am not sure how applicable that is to the educated elite, you know, those who actualy can impact our lives by accepting us into a top ranked graduate program or recruiting us into a desirable career.

“There is no way Michigan is even close to matching the profile of the “elite” private schools. It is definitely on par with the “good” private schools like Emory, Vanderbilt and JHU because those schools are just as expensive as NU and Duke, but don’t give out financial aid packages that are nearly as good.”

And yet, Duke and NU students graduate with as much debt as Michigan students.

“For an OOS student, Duke is more affordable, has higher national prestige, better job opportunities, is located in a stronger job market, has better weather, has a more aesthetically pleasing campus, has more research/study abroad/civic engagement opportunities, has a stronger student body and offers a more intimate undergraduate experience than Michigan. UMich has a better college town. The quality of academics and athletics are a wash at both places. The same argument could be made for Northwestern or Wash U.”

Woah! Talk about wild claims! A couple of your comments are true. Ann Arbor is a nicer city than Durham and academically, Michigan and Duke are roughly equal. Some of what you say above is true…to some people, but a lot of what you say is just plain untrue. I would agree that to the average OOS student, Duke gives better Financial aid than Michigan. Not to all mind you, but to some. To some OOS students, Michigan ends up being cheaper than Duke. There are at least 1 or 2 students on CC who chose Michigan over Duke annually because it costs less to attend. I also agree that to some, Duke has better weather than Michigan. But believe it or not, there are many who love cold winters. To them, Michigan is probably more desirable than Duke. Aesthetically, Duke’s campus and Michigan’s campus are very different. Both have their appeal and their lack of appeal. I am willing to agree that to more than 50% of the people, Duke’s campus is nicer than Michigan’s. But you would be surprised how many people have visited both and walked away preffering Michigan’s campus. I for one found gothic architecture in a Southern school that is less than 200 years old a little artificial and disingenuous. I actually find Michigan’s campus a lot more symbolic and in keeping with its mission. Either way, neither campus is “gorgeous” though both campuses would appeal to most. I am not sure whether or not Duke is located in a better job Market than the University of Michigan. I think people seriously underrate the state of Michigan’s career offerings. There is a rapidely growing bio-tech and pharmaceutical industry in Michigan and once the auto industry is restructured, there will be good opportunities in that market too. The auto industry isn’t going anywhere. People will always need cars. The Big 3’s problem isn’t that they cannot compete, but rather, that they are very poorly structured (no thanks to unions). However, given the current economic crisis, I think unions are going to have to have to accept broad and sweeping reforms very soon. But who cares about regional job markets? Duke and Michigan are national, if not global, universities. Companies recruit there from all over the world. In all honesty, what percentage of Duke’s freshly departing undergraduates end up working in North Carolina and what percentage of University of Michigan freshly departing undergraduates end up working in Michigan? In both cases, I am willing to bet that fewer than a third. Quality of student bodies does indeed favor Duke, but is it fair to compare? Michigan has a lot of schools that Duke does not have, such as Art, Kinesiology, Music and Nursing to name a few. I would say that students in Engineering, LSA and Business are not that much weaker than Duke students…and if there is a gap, it is no larger than the gap in academic quality between Michigan and Duke. Although I agree that Michigan and Duke are academic equals, Michigan does have a slight edge. I cannot think of many fields (other than Biology and the Biological Sciences) where Duke is ranked higher than Michigan. But at that level, attempting to differentiate between Michigan and Duke would be petty and insignificant, just as it is petty and insignificant to attempt to differentiate between the quality of the student body at Duke and Michigan. Finally, I don’t think Duke necessarily offers a more “intimate” undergraduate experience than Michigan. Yes, Michigan is larger, but college is what you make of it. I would agree that Freshmen have to make more of an effort, but come Sophomore year, Michigan can be very intimate.

But that is as far as I am willing to agree with you, and even then, only partially. All your other comments are completely untrue. Duke does not have higher national prestige than Michigan. On the whole, I would say both schools are equally respected. Duke does not offer students more research opportuntities or better study abroad options either, not in the relative sense and certainly not in the absolute sense. You picked the wrong school to compare Duke to in this regard. Michigan’s research offerings and study-abroad opportunities are plain sick!

“Why on earth would a student choose UMich over these “elite” private schools?”

Maybe because it fits them better? You are unlikely to find a more well rounded university.