Pre-Med Hopkins! Help! Help!

sakky
Sun, 26 Jun 2005 01:01:14 +0000

Sakky, our conversation is revolving around top medical schools anyways is it not? These are the schools that require the most amount of applicant marketing as you pointed out earlier.



Well, I can’t speak for Sam Lee, afan, or anybody else, but I was not necessarily talking only about top medical schools. In fact, for the most part, my part of the discussion revolves around no-name med-schools. After all, let’s face it. Those JHU premeds who are viable candidates to get into the top med-schools are the ones who have top grades and MCAT scores, and are thus the very students who Fishbein and company would be most happy to recommend. So to them, the present system works fine.

However, what I’m really referring to are those JHU premeds who won’t get a good rec from Fishbein, which tend to be the weaker students, and the fact is, these students aren’t going to be admitted by the top med-schools no matter what. Hence, if any med-school is going to admit them, it is going to be one of the lower-tier ones. And it is precisely these lower-tier schools that don’t get a lot of JHU applicants and therefore will have no idea whether JHU changes its rec policy or not.



There are alot of US med schools (with MCATs that average at around 21) out there that the average and below average jhu premed can obtain a spot at but refuses to apply to. Ofcourse these med schools are not ones JHU premeds typically apply to. They are gunning for the top with Harvard, JHU, Wustl, Upenn along with their respective state schools as potential choices. This is evidenced by Wall Street Journal’s ranking of top feeder schools to top med/business/law schools which you can surely look up. Considering each premed is advised to apply to their state school along with other privates, its a surefire bet that numerous desirable state schools are quite acclimated with JHU’s process further enhancing the knowledge of JHU’s rec process. I do agree however that there are other schools out there that may be unfamiliar to JHU’s process but theses are typically not schools JHU premeds apply to in groups atleast.



Then that just tells me that there is another opportunity for JHU to improve its advising services. If what you’re saying is true (and I suspect that it is true), then that basically means that some JHU premeds are applying to schools that are out of their league, and ought to be applying to schools that are more at their level.

Hence what Fishbein could say is something like 'Look, I cannot in good conscience endorse you for Harvard, so if you want to apply to Harvard, you should take the form letter. However I will happily write you a great rec endorsing you to go to ‘X’ no-name school, because I believe that you would be a very strong candidate at that school." Something like that. In that way, the committee would advise (but not force) students on the optimal pathway to success. If the student ignores the advice, then that’s the student’s choice. But it’s better to get into a no-name medical school than not to get into any med-school at all.



As for your view on students having a choice, I must admit it is an interesting view. However, JHU premeds who perceive the rec letter as negative by it excluding positives are misguided. They can balance it nonetheless with a supplemental faculty guide. The point is this letter by itself as ive stated numerous times before will not make or break the applicant. It will come down to his/her overall GPA, BCPM GPA, MCAT score,personal statements, volunteering, research ability, work experience, interview and a variety of other factors that are considered in medical school admissions.



Fair enough, but again, I think that ultimately, the students should be the one to make the choice over what rec to use. If you think the students are being stupid, well, they’re grown adults and they have the right to make stupid decisions. I have no problem with JHU advising students on what they think the students should do. In fact, that’s very valuable. However, at the end of the day, it’s the student that should be the one to decide what goes in his/her application, not the school. It’s the job of the school to educate and advise, but not to compel.

I have to echo what afan said: “I have a problem with the notion that the committee will determine which students “deserve” to be doctors, as Collegiate puts it. Who are they to decide who deserves to be a doctor?” That’s exactly right. Fishbein was a med-school dean before, but he isn’t anymore. So he has no right to decide who ‘deserves’ to be doctors anymore. Only the individual med-school adcoms have the right to decide who should an who shouldn’t be allowed into their med-school. JHU should not be trying to make their decisions for them. JHU students should not feel that they will be threatened with a bad rec letter if they do not follow the marching orders of the premed office.

Yes, I know, both the office and you, collegiate, have said that the office will not bar anybody from applying who wants to apply, but as stated in the article, we see that there is certainly an element of fear-factor associated with the premed office and the students, particularly the weaker students. That’s not the way it should be. I don’t think it does any good for anybody for JHU students to fear their own premed office.