Vaccine reluctance

It depends on what they are allergic to. If it is something in one vaccine but not in another, they can get the vaccine that does not have whatever they are allergic to. If it is in all available vaccines, then they are out of luck* (although that would be legitimate medical exemption for employer requirements and such).

*In theory, if they found a foreign vaccine without whatever they are allergic to, they could try to travel there to get that vaccine (there are four vaccines available in Mexico that are not the same as the three available in the US), although it may not pass employer requirements and such in the US, so they would still need to show a medical exemption from vaccines available in the US.

IgG Spike Protein antibody levels
Nuclear protein for natural infection

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I know you are pro-vax! :grinning:
The more recent myocarditis research shows the risk to be low and not as bad as previously reported. There has been only 1 case of myocarditis that resulted in death because of the vaccine. Note “the associated myocarditis is usually mild and self-limiting, and is far less likely to occur than myocarditis or death in unvaccinated people with COVID-19”

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“It depends on what they are allergic to. If it is something in one vaccine but not in another, they can get the vaccine that does not have whatever they are allergic to. If it is in all available vaccines, then they are out of luck* (although that would be legitimate medical exemption for employer requirements and such).”

I think any decisions need to be a doctor/patient based. Allowing people to consult with their physicians and make medical decisions, without penalty, imo is the way to convince people.
The decision has been taking out of the doctor/patient relationship and is being mandated by politicians who do not understand each individuals medical history.

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“IgG Spike Protein antibody levels
Nuclear protein for natural infection”
I am not sure you would get someone to go have those assays done?
I understand there are ways to prove vaccination but not sure it is practical.

Also, there are many coronaviruses. We used to report daily how many cases of coronavirus we would detect, and what type they were. When SARS-CoV-2 came along, we removed all the coronavirus reporting from our system, because we were afraid people wouldn’t know to identify which type we were reporting, and would panic when they saw all the coronavirus circulating in the population. And that’s what some tests are actually be false positives - because they are picking up other types of coronavirus and not SARS-CoV-2. So they would still need to get that antibody test to prove it. But that would be good for the patient to know.

I understand, but for your friends who say they are protected - if they know they have these antibodies then they have a strong argument to maybe not needing vaccination. That would be supporting evidence. But, would it be accepted? Maybe by some. Some experts say that should be good enough to not require a vaccine mandate for those individuals.

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That’s all fine and well, but it does not negate the fact that you linked a study you declared to be examining the effect of Covid vaccines on fertility. The study is NOT DOING THAT.

There well may be ongoing studies or completed studies that actually did or are examining the effects of Covid vaccines on fertility. You should have posted the link to one of those rather than the study which you did link, which would provide no answers to the question of whether or not covid vaccines negatively impact women’s fertility.

There may also be ongoing or concluded studies on the impacts actual Covid infection has on fertility. I would like to see those as well.

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Which is why I agree with @Mwfan1921 in that we can’t say there’s no risk because people will point to those who really, really drew the short straws.

What needs to happen is showing the odds of getting the vaccine vs Covid - and there the vaccines (all of them) really show their true benefits. There is a small risk getting any vaccine. It’s really sad when it happens, but it shouldn’t be denied. There’s a comparatively huge risk getting Covid, and not just of death, but long term complications many of which are just starting to be tabulated. No one knows how long those will last, but if anyone has doubts, read articles about kidney, brain, cardiac, lung (and probably others I’m forgetting) and how Covid affects them, many times even if one had a mild case.

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By now, most people have made up their minds, regardless of what their physicians say.

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It is a known and long-used tactic of antivaxxers to use fertility concerns as a way to scare people away from vaccines. It’s not surprising that it’s popped up for the Covid vaccine.

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I’m curious about the advice that I see frequently for reluctant people to talk to their doctor. Maybe I’m just odd, but I see my doctor once a year for a physical. She works as part of a group practice and when you call with an issue you usually get a call back from a nurse who assesses whether you really need to come in or not. If you do get an appointment, you see whoever has space. I don’t think I’ve ever seen my own doctor on one of these random visits. So, how exactly are you supposed to talk this over with your doctor? I have a hard time believing that vaccine reluctant people, in general, are the type to have very close relationships with their doctors.

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Numbers sound pretty good to people, right? But right now we are at 1 in 458 people in the US have died. That’s pretty sobering to me.

And well over 99.9% of them from Covid itself, not the vaccines.

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I understand the point you are trying to make, but even this number drastically overestimates the risk of death from the vaccines.

I booked a telemedicine visit with my PCP to talk about boosters. Got an appointment within a week.

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The great termination has begun. Several large defense contractors are reviewing and rejecting specious exemption requests and preparing to terminate the employment of the non-vaxxed multitude. Some federal contractors now will hire only vaxxed applicants. It should be interesting.

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Here in my state, one that is only now beginning to expand Medicaid, many of the people who have yet to get a vaccine have no doctor to talk it over with.

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We will see if non-compliance to vaccine mandates change Thanksgiving travel in the US with 40% of the Transportation Security Administration’s (TSA) employees still unvaccinated with a deadline looming on the Monday BEFORE Thanksgiving to be FULLY VACCINATED. Here is one quote from the CNN article:

“ In order to meet that deadline, the last possible date for receiving the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine is October 18, while the latest possible date for the first dose of Moderna was October 11. The Pfizer vaccine requires a three-week waiting period in between first and second doses. Moderna requires a four-week wait. The last possible date to receive the single-dose Johnson & Johnson vaccine is November 8, two weeks before the November 22 deadline.”

The TSA may be in trouble….

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@bluedog seems to be swimming in a sea of misinformation without a science-background paddle to get them out, which is distressing but not unusual.

Bluedog, every point you’re raising has been addressed, and addressed reasonably, by dozens of epidemiologists, virologists, drug developers, doctors, nurses, science communicators, and public health experts.

If what you’re saying here is “I don’t trust any of them because they’re too self-interested,” then not only are you missing the boat on why most of them are doing the work they do, but there’s no point in listening to anyone involved in medical science. You can stop pretending that you take them seriously – or hoping that they’re going to give you some magical nonscientific response to your concerns. At that point you can just go pick up an herbalist book and hope that it’s clear and honest about why human lifespans were so much shorter back when that was the best anyone could hope for in terms of medicine. If it’s honest, it’ll also bring you back around to pharmaceuticals, because so much in medicine comes from plants – only science has been applied to find out what exactly it is that makes the cure go, the molecules have been identified, and the drug companies have avoided clearing entire forests in a hunt for tiny quantities of the magic and instead gone and synthesized the active ingredients in labs. And those molecules are very much the same as the ones in the plants. That was a couple decades’ worth of intense and fashionable science, and some’s still around.

If what you’re saying is “I’m scared,” then please go watch some videos of nurses taking you through covid wards, and read some covid-autopsy papers, so you’ll know what to be scared of. Have a good gander at what that virus does to the insides of people’s bodies. The vaccines themselves have turned out to be spectacularly safe after hundreds of millions of doses have been given. Most of what you take for whatever ails you is more dangerous to you than these vaccines are likely to be.

If what you’re saying is “I don’t want to be forced,” well, you aren’t. Because our government is ridiculously tolerant, anyone can go ahead and be as unreasonable with their own health as they like. You just aren’t allowed to go spreading a bad disease to other people, so you’ll have to get tested quite often and isolate if you catch it.

If what you’re saying is “people shouldn’t have to consider other people,” then may I suggest making better friends with Bezos so you can hitch a ride on that rocket to a place where you won’t have other people to worry about. Here on earth we have to consider each other. More and more all the time.

If what you’re saying is “make people feel safe,” then at this point my preferred option is to require vaccination for most of what people want to do. You’ll notice that after years of hysterics, almost nobody worries about the varicella vax, the HPV vax, Dtap, most of the ones you need for kindergarten. Or meningitis, which some colleges require. Or hep C, or pneumovax. And that’s because vaccines are the most spectacular public-health win we’ve ever had. Hardly anyone suffers ill effects; diseases vanish; outcry also subsides.

If, in the face of all evidence to the contrary, what you’re saying is “I dunno, looks pretty sus,” then I can’t do anything about an enjoyment of paranoias, a need for secret and superior knowledge, and an unwillingness to take the deaths of millions seriously.

If what you’re saying is “Purity Of Essence,” then ain’t nothing to say.

Yeah – I saw something from some rural-medicine person in Indiana who’s using this as a platform for more money for rural medicine, and it’s really annoying to get this spin. Yes, rural America needs more doctors. But no, the doc’s living 45 minutes away is not the reason why rural people aren’t being persuaded by kindly, familiar Dr. Wenowdis. (s.v.: we have zoom now, and I hear most people are on the telephone, and I don’t know what fantasy world this is in which all city folk have trusted Dr. Wenowdis consulting in some kind of Norman Rockwell scene and rolling up their sleeves in consequence.)

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But I bet they got a Walgreens somewhere within a hundred miles. Where the pharmacist can tell them that the vaccine is free, in case they’ve missed the thousands of media messages.

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