Vaccine reluctance

To be clear, I am being diplomatic in my posts. I rely on actual studies and not websites that may tend political. I also rely on @ucbalumnus :slight_smile:

I was afraid of the mRNA vaccines due to an intolerance of polyethylene glcol but both shots have been fine and I am grateful for them.

This thread has lasted despite the dangers of being closed down and I don’t want to cause any problems so I am not going to say anymore regarding research biases.

5 Likes

Almost no one’s predictions have been more wrong than that of Osterholm with regard to C19 so I’m glad you weigh others’ opinions as well.

The science is still out on who is being led astray. This is why the discussion is so valuable and should not be shut down. Neither majority opinion nor public policy are always (and often aren’t) indicators of truth. Biases are real - for both for you and me. What’s conspiracy one day is truth on another day.

I do think it’s very important to know the individual risks of taking the vaccine. Dismissing information out of hand doesn’t achieve this. Calling research conspiracy because it doesn’t agree with what you’ve concluded or doesn’t agree with the popular opinion does not achieve this either.

I actually did read the articles you posted on ADE and found them to be of great value. I will continue to read from all angles, but tend to post from the least represented one because I think that questioning is important. It is, in fact, the basis of science.

3 Likes

@compmom i can’t pm you so I will state publicly.

I think you are being very diplomatic. :grin:

And I think you have shown bravery in getting the vaccine with your medical issues.

I hope that everything goes well and that you have a great reunion with your daughter. And regular visits with your mom. I saw my mom last weekend, and it was wonderful.

This pandemic has stolen so much from all of us. It’s been a year of sacrifice.

14 Likes

Hear hear!

My kids were born at Wakefield’s hospital at the very time he instigated the MMR controversy, and his claims were a HUGE source of angst. I did get my kids vaccinated, but I would be lying if I said I wasn’t worried. I just reminded myself that getting those diseases was worse, not just for my family, but for society. It was a few more years before he was discredited and I felt very angry that one person did so much damage to a system that had been working well for decades.

If we want to find the root of the problem, we can look at him. But plenty of people gave him credibility and fostered enough distrust in medicine and health officials that the issue has now been able to come back on an even larger scale.

13 Likes

I have been impressed with the civility in which the CC community has engaged this topic. This topic can get heated very quickly and we’ve managed to keep it (mostly) civil for nearly 1000 posts! We should take pride that we can discuss controversial topics and keep our lids on.

That said, this thread is coming to the end of its life. Why? Let me explain:

  • Long threads are hard to follow and even harder for new folks to start fresh. The Summary post says it would take 168 minutes(!) to read through the entire thread.
  • Long threads tend to be circular because it is so hard to remember what has been discussed already.
  • Long threads tend to meander off-topic. There are several posts in this thread that could start their own self-contained threads.
  • Much has been said, everyone has had a chance to participate, and there are few new points to be made on the original post.

With that in mind, the mod team and I have decided to sunset this thread. This doesn’t mean we don’t want to discuss COVID or other important topics, only that this particular thread has run its course and we should start new ones. New threads will help keep discussions on-topic and also serve new folks who want to jump in from the start.

This thread will close on Thursday at 6pm ET. This is your official call for a “sum-it-up” post if you would like to get in a final word. Thank you for being part of our amazing community and see you in other threads!

11 Likes

Thank you so much @CCAdminMike! For being patient, keeping this thread open. And giving notice to close it.

To everyone who has participated, THANK YOU!!! I’ve really enjoyed the conversation and appreciate ALL of you!

5 Likes

Thank you! I would add that a lot has changed since this thread opened. Appreciate the thread . I was so scared of the vaccine due to allergies and folks were helpful. At this point, hope we can all agree on it riding into the sunset!

5 Likes

I think it’s just cultural for many. In our culture it’s the same—no nursing homes. No exceptions. Someone steps up to the plate and sometimes several someones and pay for outside assistance if necessary.

2 Likes

For those who are interested in digging deeper into the science of mRNA vaccines (or rather the delivery system) ( @scout59 if you are still reading CC).

https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/drug-delivery/Without-lipid-shells-mRNA-vaccines/99/i8

The “ingredients” mixed with the mRNA piece to form a nanoparticle have been around for a while. In 2018, the FDA approved a first lipid nanoparticle based drug, Onpattro (the active ingredient in it is a form of a nucleic acid).

3 Likes

I appreciate concerns about possible unknown side-effects of the vaccine. But that should also be balanced by both known and unknown side-effects of covid-19 itself.

That is, if you’re concerned that vaccine side-effects might pop up in 10 years, then you should be equally concerned that covid-19 side-effects will also pop up in 10 years.

If you choose not to get the vaccine because of that concern, then you’re essentially choosing to take the covid-19 risk instead.

That said, it is well-known that covid-19 has a significant risk of medium-term side effects, e.g. the long-haulers. In fact it’s unknown how long the long-haulers may be affected; it may well be lifelong. There’s also known long-term side effects such as diminished lung capacity.

I’m unaware of serious medium-term side effects from the vaccine; there’s the blood-clotting thing, but I believe that’s literally a one in a million side-effect. If there’s serious issues that can last for months, I’d be interested in hearing about it.

So I don’t think vaccinated people are ignoring unknown vaccine risks or playing them down. Rather they’re looking at the well-documented covid risks and wondering why people think getting covid is safer than a vaccine. Some people fear the unknown more than the known, and some are the opposite.

15 Likes

But you can do a lot to protect yourself from getting Covid. It’s not a choice between getting Covid and a getting a vaccine. It’s a choice between the possibility of getting Covid and the possibility of having long-term side effects afterwards vs. getting the vaccine.

1 Like

99.75% of patients admitted from 1/2 to 4/18 were not fully vaccinated.

7 Likes

However, unless you are normally a hermit, avoiding COVID-19 exposure does require constant vigilance (doable, but annoying to many people), and expectations / requirements of others’ behavior around you (hard to guarantee, especially if you work or do other activity that require in-person presence). Or expecting everyone else to get vaccinated to provide herd immunity to protect you.

For the general population (as opposed to those with known specific medical contraindications) the chance of getting COVID-19 multiplied by the chance of bad effects is still orders of magnitude greater than the chance of bad effects from a vaccine.

6 Likes

Since we only have a few months of experience with the vax, not sure that you can say this. We have no way of knowing if the vax will itself have any long-term effects, particularly for still-maturing bodies. Fortunately, my kids are adults now and they are vaccinated, but if I had kids <18, I would hold off on the vaccine until more data is available as the “chance of bad effects” for kids is quite low. This is a virus that hits the elderly and those with multiple co-morbidities hard. Those younger with zero co-morbiditiy, not so much. (per Fauci)

4 Likes

I’m disappointed that this thread will be closed. I think vaccine hesitancy is very much a relevant issue. Why not start a part 2?

15 Likes

Completely agree, but there may be people who are willing to deal with that. I was just trying to illustrate the point that the original comparison wasn’t really a fair comparison.

With the exception of such outlier hermits (I know one person who has not stepped outside of their yard in more than a year!), the original comparison is a fair comparison because it applies to the vast majority of people. :slight_smile:

1 Like

Thank you @CCAdminMike! I have been critical in the past so I want to publicly give praise for how CC has handled the thread and it’s closure. So nice!

@mom60 I don’t think CC would stop anyone starting a new thread on this topic if they would like.

4 Likes

Since covid-19 looks like it’ll become endemic the odds of someone unvaccinated over time catching it will continue to grow. It’s not a one and done risk, ironically partly due to vaccine reluctance.

Of course playing devil’s advocate, I’d say people will have to keep getting boosters increasing any unknown risks.

4 Likes