Which engineering undergrad schools do you suggest:INTERNATIONAL STUDENT!!

<p>Hello dear CC members,
i am a tunisian student and i'mapplying to US colleges thanks to the advising services of eucationUSA, i'm nit new with the process and i really love this forum since it gives plenty of information about it .
Ok, let me tell you a little about me:</p>

<p>two months ago thanks to Amideast(USA EDUCATION CENTER) i've heard for the first time about the possibility of going to Study in the US</p>

<p>And since Our family income can't be compared to the american lifestyle i've decided to aim high and have a shot at applying to the most selective colleges
and to be honnest I've always dreamt to go to Yale</p>

<p>So, as for my capabilities (which is a bit hard to translate to the american educational system) let me first tell you that english is my THIRD language after arabic and french and i speak german too.</p>

<p>Ok ,the Sat , Ihaven't took but a practise site offers a predicatble minimum score all i had to do was having a diagnostic in the 3 sections and then practise for two hours and
i received a minimum score of 2200: 780Math-720 Reading-700Writing
and i had the same score in the online free practise test but let me remind you that i haven't done any preparation before that!!!!!!</p>

<p>That's why: i know that with some practise i could have <strong><em>2300</em></strong></p>

<p>As for my academics i am the top of my pionner high scholl(top 3 HS in the country) and my GP is about 4.0 (i have to say compared to my country HS my school is pretty competitive) it is like a charter school with admission tests and all.</p>

<p>As for my extra-curricular activities i play chess tennis and MAth olympiads in addition to mathematical games(top in the country and going to compete in the international in france with great chances) I participate in KANGOROO too.I have many other extra-currilcular activitites but never had a remarkable position .</p>

<p>I have been doing community service too as free tutoring , organising english day camp, raising donation, beach clean up ...</p>

<p>I've written the essay a good one i must saay talking about my personal backgroung goals and enginnering and how studying in the US would affect me.</p>

<p>Here is my college list ::
MIT dream school ::::know that it is a long shot but what the heck i am going for it
Princeton
Dartmouth
Cornell
Vassar</p>

<p>And i'm looking for safeties that would offer a great financial aid >>92%</p>

<p>PLEASE HELP LOOK FOR SAFETIES</p>

<p>By the way, if it doesn't work i could be going to FRANCE or GERMANy and those have great engineering schoos too.</p>

<p>Thanks for the help and sorry for the typing or grammatical mistakes due to my hasty typing..</p>

<p>
[quote]
By the way, if it doesn't work i could be going to FRANCE or GERMANy and those have great engineering schools too.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Would you consider going to school in England instead ? I guess the problem with British universities would be that they don't give financial aid to international students and actually charge them much higher tuition fees, but there are excellent engineering schools in the UK.</p>

<p>Since you are from Tunisia and probably attended a French-patterned secondary school, I assume French universities would be your natural safeties, including on the financial side.</p>

<p>Your list of schools is not the best for engineering aspirants. </p>

<p>If you're international and aiming for a scholarship, I suggest that you look into Harvard, MIT and Stanford. They're all generous to international students with superb academic credentials. You may also try Caltech and Olin.</p>

<p>yeah, french universities are my safeties, but i want safeties for the US:so that i wouldn't waste the cost of the application process and then go to france.
but thank you for your answer :)
by the way ::: i love english far mor than french and i can't pass my whole day speaking french !!</p>

<p>HI RML
my list contains 3 need-blind unis as for HArard it is tooooooo selective and not the best engineering school (according to US news ranking)
as for stanford it doesn't offer generous fin-aid for international unlike princeton and mit, nor does Caltech!!!!
any way, i'd like a suggestion of schools that are easier to get in than this list to have them as my safeties!!
thanks for your help</p>

<p>I've not heard of Princeton giving aid to international students, but I've heard Stanford has. </p>

<p>Harvard isn't popular for engineering but the engineering programs they offer are superb. You would probably make more as a Harvard engineering grad than as an engineering grad of any school. If you have the stats to get into Princeton, I would encourage you to apply to Harvard, bcoz they look for almost the same quality students. </p>

<p>I'm not sure which other top-ranked engineering schools offer aid to international, but I know State Us don't. </p>

<p>Did you try CMU, Cornell, Rice and NU? They're all great for engineering too.</p>

<p>How much can your parents pay?</p>

<p>Does Vassar have engineering, is it good, and is it generous to int'ls??? (is it more generous than Stanford???)</p>

<p>If you're also looking for safeties in the US, then you need to consider some schools that have good engineering programs and give huge merit scholarships. </p>

<p>BTW....USNews for engineering isn't a big help. There are literally 100-200+ good engineering schools in the US, so only looking at tippy top schools is not the best idea if you need options. Just in Calif alone, there are probably 15 -20 good engineering schools.</p>

<p>This country wouldn't be what it is if it only had about 20 good engineering schools producing engineers.</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>Harvard does not have career survey results available in an obvious place. From what information do you base this claim on?</p>

<p>There are a lot of public universities that are excellent for engineering. UT-Austin has quite a few departments ranked in the top 20. I don't think UT gives much aid to international students, though. Does anyone know of other publics that do?</p>

<p>The problem you have is that only a few schools are need blind for internationals and capable of meeting full need. Stanford for instance is NOT need blind for internationals. Some like MIT have quotas for internationals precisely because they treat them the same for financial aid. You will simply not find safety schools that are very generous with international students. Public universities never do and most privates don't either. You also can't get student loans in the US as a non-resident. </p>

<p>It is a well known fact that the overwhelming majority of US schools see internationals as a source of full pay students NOT as a drain on their financial aid budgets. With most colleges, even the richest under financial pressure, the financial aid budgets are very stressed.</p>

<p>One definite school for you to look at is McGill in Canada. They have an excellent international reputation especially in engineering. Residents of certain french speaking countries get to pay the very low Quebec tuition rates. Annual tuition and fees are only $3,600/year and total COA is less than $15,000. You may even get access to financial aid to help with living expenses. You simply can't beat a deal like that in the US. The Quebec government has quotas for all countries except France, and the Tunisia quota is one the highest at 140/year (for all Quebec schools, not just McGill). Application is still competitive and you will need to do well on the baccalaureate for admission. But it will still be far easier than admission to MIT.</p>

<p>thanks guys
i'm really glad to sse that you're concerend about my issue
it looks like it all depends on the October SAt if is core something around 2200 or 2300 it would be clearer
as for the quebec i wouldn't consider it because i need to remind you that if i go to FRance it is fully paid by the goverment even the ticket so i'm only having a shot at the US with a hope of getting a generous financial aid to some ngineering school that are better than those in france
About harvard, i'm already having troubles with advisers in educationUSa to eliminate the big names and be humble so i'm settling with this list for REAch schools but i'm gonna looks like there isn't rezally something as safety which offers aid for int so it's all about the sat
@mom2collegekids:i'm lookng dor vassar's dual-school program with darmouth and the ydoo ofer full schoarship
even cornell offers about 25-30 full scholarship to intl
as for MIt tey've sat a quota of:150 intls wile more than 3000 intls are competitiong on going in so it is harder to an internationa lthan to an amercian</p>

<p>Thank you for your help</p>

<p>I would not rely on your SAT scores as an indication of admission to the reach schools. They all reject many applicants with perfect 2400 scores., so a strong SAT score is no assurance of admission. Unless you have some international awards your chances will be very, very low. I also don't know where you have heard that Cornell offers 25-30 full scholarships to internationals. I highly doubt it. I also makes absolutely no sense to go for a 3+2 program for engineering study in the US as an international.</p>

<p>I am not convinced you will do better going to France than McGill. If you intend to apply to the top French engineering schools you will need to spend 2-3 years in the CPGE system first with no assurance of admission after that a to a top school like Polytechnique or Centrale. McGill is a much better engineering school than any of the French schools to which you can be admitted directly after the baccalaureate such as the INSA.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Harvard does not have career survey results available in an obvious place. From what information do you base this claim on?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There was this research paper available online which I accidentally viewed it which I could no longer find it now. It was about the salary scale of engineering and CS grads from Harvard, MIT, Sanford, Berkeley and CMU. Harvard was number one in the list, followed by MIT then Berkeley then CMU. The difference was very negligible though. Amongst Harvard employers I saw on the report were Goldman Sachs and McKinsey. Yes, those companies took several engineering grads from Harvard.</p>

<p>The skew would then be the (school-prestige-conscious) recruiting into investment banking and management consulting firms. It is likely that "Harvard", rather than "Harvard engineering" is what gets them recruited.</p>

<p>For those who actually want to work in engineering, the results may be different.</p>

<p>hi guys
thanks for the feedback
@cellardweller; you seem well informed about the french system and you are right : french system is risky and a waste of time ::: 2+4:polytechnique and it is very difficult to get it and i'll have to wait for 25 years until iknow whether i going or nto
as for cornell i don't know where i saw it but i remember seeing in the fin-aid something about 25 full scholarship maybe it is another school i must look for it
and the dual-school engineering program why isn't recommended ofr intl could you clarify it is it like:: no scholarship for the 5th year??
and is it also not recommended to start in a liberal arts college and then have engineering in graduate phase??
Thanks</p>

<p>oh no i found it ;;it is duke that gives 25 full scolarship ot cornell !!!</p>

<p>Even among US students hardly anybody takes advantage of the 3+2 engineering programs that LACs offer. They don't make sense practically or economically. If you want to study engineering, go a school that has an engineering department. For an international student such programs make even less sense. The first two years at US colleges cover material that is typically taught in other countries in high school. It is actually very common to get sophomore standing in the US with a baccalaureate degree. Most LACs won't let you do that as they want to pay for 4 full years not three years. If you want to study engineering in grad school, it is nearly impossible to get admitted without an undergrad engineering degree. </p>

<p>Again, you should really look into McGill. They were in the top 20 of world universities in USNews. On top of that, you get automatic sophomore standing with a baccalaureate degree so you will be done in 3 years as compared to 4 (or 5). My nephew will be starting there in the fall and he believes it is the best decision he ever made. (A side benefit is that you will most likely be able to get a Canadian residency visa after McGill).</p>

<p>*It is a well known fact that the overwhelming majority of US schools see internationals as a source of full pay students NOT as a drain on their financial aid budgets. *</p>

<p>This is an excellent point that many int'ls don't consider. </p>

<p>US schools are not "chomping at the bit" to provide free money for int'ls. It is often waaaayyyyy toooo hard for US schools to properly determine income/assets for int'ls, so giving lots of aid is rare. Even the small number of int'ls who get aid often complain here on CC that their pkgs aren't "full need met" even at full need schools....don't know if that's because those schools doubt income/assets claims or what. </p>

<p>The bottom line is that most schools consider int'ls as "full payers" and as sources of money. So, if you need money, don't just apply to the few schools that give big aid, also apply to the one who will give you big merit. However, you'll still have to pay some of the costs. </p>

<p>How much can you/your family pay?</p>

<p>My experience with many international applicants is that even merit money is very iffy. In the same manner that it is very hard to evaluate the income of int'l applicants for need-based aid it is even harder to evaluate their academic credentials. Unless they have won major international awards such as IMO, or alternatively are recruited athletes, most internationals are not likely to get much in terms of scholarships or merit aid. </p>

<p>In short unless you are an internationally recognized math genius or play golf like McIlroy, you'd better have a fat checkbook. There are just so many wealthy Chinese, Saudi and Indian applicants willing to pay full boat that there is zero incentive to give away money to less fortunate internationals.</p>

<p>*oh no i found it ;;it is duke that gives 25 full scolarship not cornell !!! *</p>

<p>That isn't what Duke does either.</p>

<p>Just because Duke will meet the need for 20-25 int'l students, that does NOT mean 25 "full scholarships". That means that 20-25 students who have various levels of need will get their need met. Some/many may only have a small amount of need. </p>

<p>If Duke is need-aware, then that could mean that some/many of the chosen students have little need.</p>

<p>*
Duke University encourages ALL qualified foreign nationals to apply for admission. The university will meet full demonstrated financial need for a limited number of international students applying for first-year admission. Because financial resources for these students are limited, each year Duke expects to enroll 20-25 first-year foreign citizens who receive need-based financial aid. Please note there is no need-based aid for international transfer applicants.*</p>