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Advice for Daughter

LookAtMyShoesLookAtMyShoes 13 replies9 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 22 Junior Member
One of the paths my daughter is considering (currently a rising HS senior) is applying to Oxford Law. Her ultimate goal is to be a lawyer in NYC.

She is considering this because she likes the idea of skipping undergrad and going straight to the Law studies. This also makes sense financially since the undergrad programs she's considering in the US will be more expensive for our family than 3 years at Oxford.

She loves politics. Her hobbies, extra curricular activities and passion is in politics. However, she hasn't done anything specific in Law. I have told her that she needs to work in law offices this next year in as many capacities as she can to make sure she is interested in Law. She's concerned, as well as us, that jumping into Law from high school may not be the best idea unless she's absolutely sure.

She wants to follow Amal Clooney's example and come back to the US, take the bar, and practice in a large firm.

Before she spends her senior summer planning for this contingent path, what are the possible pitfalls in this plan? She has basically been studying for standardized tests for so long that I don't want her studying for the LNAT this summer if this isn't a realistic path.

I'd say she's competitive. 1/420 rank, 4.0/4.7 gpa, 36 ACT, 770 Lit SAT Subject, 740 Math I Subject, Numerous 5's on AP Exams, a few 4's too. She'll have 16 APs complete end of senior year.

Any advice would be appreciated. Have a nice day.
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Replies to: Advice for Daughter

  • VickiSoCalVickiSoCal 3352 replies33 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 3,385 Senior Member
    Amal Clooney did a LLM at NYU before studying for and passing the NY Bar. Taht is typical for foreign law grads who want to practice in the US.

    So it is not as much of a shortcut as you think.
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  • collegemom3717collegemom3717 6266 replies46 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 6,312 Senior Member
    edited May 22
    Be aware that an undergrad law degree In the UK does not qualify you to practice law- you have 3 more years to go. After graduating with an undergraduate degree in Law, the student does a year long vocational course called the Legal Practice Course (LPC), usually while under contract to the law firm with whom they interned during the summer between 2nd & 3rd year, and for whom they will go to work for the two year training period required before they can be fully qualified solicitors. So, overall it is shorter- 6 years to qualifying, vs 7 in the US. (interestingly, there is a move afoot in the US to eliminate the third year of law school- but that isn't happening anytime soon)

    More relevantly, what may not be obvious is that Oxford Law, as a course, is particularly academic/theoretical- more than most of the UK law courses. It may be shorter, but it is an extremely rigid course, that involves a ferocious amount of reading and writing. I know more than a few Oxford law students who wished that they had done another course, and then the post-graduate law conversion course.

    On another front, if her real interest is politics, I wonder that she isn't considering that nursery for UK politicians (including all of the main ones mucking up the UK right now), PPE? That's a three year course, and if she still wants law she could apply to US law school from there- 6 years instead of 7 anyway.
    edited May 22
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  • Twoin18Twoin18 1382 replies16 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,398 Senior Member
    "including all of the main ones mucking up the UK right now"

    I agree one could blame Oxford but not necessarily PPE, for example:
    Theresa May: St Hugh's, Geography
    Boris Johnson: Balliol, Greats (Classics)
    Jacob Rees Mogg: Trinity, History
    Michael Gove: Lady Margaret Hall, English

    But I agree that doing PPE is a more attractive option for most Americans. I don't know whether you could even do the rest of the UK qualification requirements without the ability to work in the UK. So you might have to come back to the US at that point without being fully qualified.
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  • collegemom3717collegemom3717 6266 replies46 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 6,312 Senior Member
    LOL, thanks for the amplification, @Twoin18! Nothing like someone from the place Down the River to know these things ;-)

    tbh, I had Cameron (ok, he's out, but he had a *lot* to do with this mess), Farage, Hammond, Millibrand and that sort in mind. Not too long ago Magdalen PPEists were seriously overrepresented- they had 5 of them in cabinet at the same time! (Hague, Osborne, Huhne, Grieve and Hunt).
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  • Twoin18Twoin18 1382 replies16 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,398 Senior Member
    Ha, things were much better in the 1980s when there was a "Cambridge mafia" helping to run the country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Mafia).
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  • HazeGreyHazeGrey 210 replies3 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 213 Junior Member
    One other thing to keep in mind - Oxford has been significantly increasing their overseas student fees. When my son started in Fall of 2017, his annual University fee was roughly GBP 23,000. Oxford does charge different fees for different degree programs and Maths & CS is in the top bracket. For overseas student starting in Fall of 2019, that fee is almost GBP 35,000. Plus as an overseas student, you pay an almost GBP 8,000 fee to your individual college. Thrown in another GBP 9,000 for room/board and you're now up around GBP 52,000 before travel and extras. At 1.27, that's about $66,000 with almost no possibility for financial aid.
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  • collegemom3717collegemom3717 6266 replies46 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 6,312 Senior Member
    (& those extras can be pretty extra, especially if you like going to Balls!)
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  • VickiSoCalVickiSoCal 3352 replies33 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 3,385 Senior Member
    @HazeGrey yes. We have crossed Oxford and Cambridge off I think for D20 because of the increasing fees. Unfortunate.
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  • Twoin18Twoin18 1382 replies16 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 1,398 Senior Member
    edited May 24
    @HazeGrey The way in which Oxford fees are quoted has changed, so the increase is not as large as you suggest. For 2017/18 the price was separate for university fees (GBP 23,190) and college fees (GBP 7,350) for a total of GBP 30,540. Now they include the college fee in the quoted GBP 34,678 for 2019/20. So the increase is actually only 13.5% over 2 years (6.6% p.a.). Definitely above inflation but not much more of an increase (in fact probably less in absolute dollars) than for full pay at a comparable top US private college.

    However, Cambridge still has the separate college fees and is quite a lot more expensive (GBP 30,678 for CS in 2019/20 plus around GBP 9000 for most of the colleges). That GBP 5000 difference may provide a significant incentive to choose Oxford.

    Some of the differences in course cost seem somewhat hard to justify (why is geography expensive, why is math more than economics?). And there is a big incentive to choose Math rather than Math+CS since it is GBP 7500 cheaper at Oxford and GBP 8500 cheaper at Cambridge. The lesson is to pick arts courses I suppose...
    edited May 24
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  • HazeGreyHazeGrey 210 replies3 discussionsRegistered User Posts: 213 Junior Member
    @Twoin18. Just saw Oxford’s announcement about that yesterday. Good to know.
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