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UCSD School of Law

thetrumpet070thetrumpet070 Registered User Posts: 387 Member
Local Educational Institutions Form Joint Committee to Consider Establishment of UC San Diego School of... -- SAN DIEGO, Jan. 26 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --

SAN DIEGO, Jan. 26 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The University of California, San Diego (UC San Diego) and California Western School of Law (California Western) this month formed a joint committee made up of faculty and administrators from both institutions to consider an affiliation that may lead to the establishment of a UC San Diego School of Law. It is envisioned that the law school would be self-supporting and no state or UC San Diego campus funds would be needed to make the new law school viable.

Formation of this committee follows initial consideration of a proposal from California Western to UC San Diego, according to Paul Drake, UC San Diego's Senior Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs.

"We believe the proposal has sufficient merit to explore the possibilities together," Drake said. "A UC San Diego School of Law would enhance the research, teaching and public service mission of the university.

California Western Dean Steven R. Smith added, "The increasingly robust ties between our two institutions, built over the past three and a half decades of dual and joint degree programs, co-sponsored symposia and cross-institutional teaching, led us to look at the possibility of a combination as the next logical step in our relationship. This could create a public law school for San Diego with no start-up costs – and without creating a new (de novo) law school, or generating more law school graduates."

The joint committee will explore ways in which a UC San Diego School of Law might build on existing strengths, enhance other academic disciplines and create unique broad-based areas of exploration in law, science and technology.

In addition, the joint committee will consider the following issues with regard to the proposed affiliation:

•Faculty – integrating and respecting existing California Western faculty and planning for new hires;
•Students – attracting students with strong credentials;
•Finance – ensuring that the law school continues to be self-supporting as a public institution;
•Governance – maintaining consistency with University of California, American Bar Association and Association of American Law Schools standards; and
•Transition – charting a smooth transformation into a UC San Diego School of Law.

"At a challenging time in the university's history," Drake said, "this proposed affiliation would present an opportunity to advance the long-term vision of the University of California system and this campus."

Noted Smith, "The San Diego region could benefit from having a law school that helps advance and support its most important science and technology industries, today and tomorrow."

If the Joint Committee determines that the proposal should advance, a planning document will be submitted to the UC San Diego Faculty Senate and administration, and to the California Western faculty and Board of Trustees. If these bodies endorse the committee's recommendation, it will then be sent to the UC Office of the President for a final evaluation and decision. There is no firm timeline for making a determination.

About UC San Diego

Founded in 1960, the University of California, San Diego is ranked the best value public university in California by Kiplinger's Personal Finance magazine and the 7th best public university in the nation by U.S. News and World Report. Named the "hottest" institution to study science by Newsweek, UC San Diego is one of the nation's most accomplished research universities, widely acknowledged for its local impact, national influence and global reach. For more information, please visit UC San Diego Home Page.

About California Western School of Law

California Western School of Law is the independent, ABA/AALS-accredited San Diego law school that advances multi-dimensional lawyering by educating lawyers-to-be as creative problem solvers and principled advocates who frame the practice of law as a helping, collaborative profession. Please visit California Western School of Law | San Diego "What law school ought to be" for more information.
Post edited by thetrumpet070 on

Replies to: UCSD School of Law

  • MiqueMausMiqueMaus Registered User Posts: 289 Junior Member
    There are already too many law schools out there... I honestly hope we don't do this...

    "It is envisioned that the law school would be self-supporting and no state or UC San Diego campus funds would be needed to make the new law school viable."

    I somehow doubt this. Good law schools become self-sufficient only after alumni start donating money.

    Honestly don't understand this move. It won't help the prestige of UCSD either since it'll likely be ranked pretty darned low.
  • thetrumpet070thetrumpet070 Registered User Posts: 387 Member
    As the article said it wouldn't create a new law school, or any more law school graduates... Cal Western is already an existing school and already has those donations you're talking about. All UC law schools are in the top 39 with Hastings being the lowest, and Davis at 35. Pretty sure UCSD would be top 40 as well within the decade the way they agressively recruit professors. I don't understand your logic. San Diego is the 2nd biggest city in the state and 9th biggest in the country and it doesn't even have a formidable law school in the region.
  • jrmorsejrmorse Registered User Posts: 173 Junior Member
    ^^^USD has a good law school^^^
  • OyamaOyama Registered User Posts: 2,486 Senior Member
    I agree with MiqueMaus.

    If you're not a T14 Law School, you're just like the rest.
  • MiqueMausMiqueMaus Registered User Posts: 289 Junior Member
    Is that you, Kenny? You have so many posts, it has to be you.

    I was talking to a UCSD visiting professor who teaches full time at CA Western and he said that its a reasonable idea, just not right now when there is no money to do anything.
  • OyamaOyama Registered User Posts: 2,486 Senior Member

    And agreed. Can't afford to do this since a Law School won't be a cash cow for quite a while.
  • tmart24tmart24 Registered User Posts: 8 New Member
    (1) CA Western is 100% self sufficient. It actually operates with a surplus. It already is a cash cow, and it becoming UCSD Law School certainly will not affect that adversely.
    (2) It will be easy for UCSD Law to sustain itself. Most UC Law schools get little or no state funding due to a recent trend nation wide. These schools have simply raised tuition to compensate. The UCSD Law tuition would be in the same ballpark.
    *Debunking the rumor that UCSD Law would bring in less money if it matched UC Law School prices. CA Western's tuition is more than IN STATE tuition at UC Law Schools by about $3k/yr but it is less than out of state tuition at some UC law schools by as much as $4,000. With 40% of its students coming from out of state, this would balance things out.
    (3) The law school will help cut costs and raise funds for other departments. For instance, the technology transfer office will benefit from the merger. The medical school can add a forensic psychiatry program, etc. Adding a law school will help UCSD raise more research $.
    (4) Just because CA Western is a T4 School doesn't mean UCSD Law would be ranked low. The admission requirements would change and the ranking would go very quickly. Look at what happened when Penn. State merged with the Dickinson School of Law.
    (5) This will be the only Law School in San Diego that is part of a research 1 institution. USD is not a respected research University, it is a small private school that does not rank in Tier 1 for its undergraduate education.
    (6) No major state school has been able to sustain itself without a law school. UCSD needs this. Law Schools are a cash cow.

    Whoever is saying this is not the time to do it economically is wrong. UCSD is in the red and CA Western operates at a surplus. Can you do math?

    The only people who oppose this so far are people that are uninformed about the true $ situation or people involved with USD Law, who fear the competition (which they should).
  • Avib0yAvib0y Registered User Posts: 504 Member
    With the economy and how bad the funding is for UCs, there's no way that this could even be funded.

    And even if this were built, it would be quite a few years before UCSD law even established a name for itself and gathered a bunch of top tiered students that would make it one of the more favored law programs in the country; therefore, they'd be losing quite a bit of money just by running the program for the first X number of years
  • OyamaOyama Registered User Posts: 2,486 Senior Member
    So I'm assuming you work as a lobbyist?
  • tmart24tmart24 Registered User Posts: 8 New Member
    There are no new facilities to build.

    CA Western already has first rate facilities in Downtown San Diego. No new facilities would be built. Both their Library and Administrative facilities are less than 10 years old.

    Furthermore, it makes sense to have UCSD's Law School be located downtown; closer to the United States District Court, California Court of Appeals, Superior Courts, and highest concentration or Law Firms in San Diego.

    Therefore, there is no cost involved other than changing the name on the buildings that already exist.

    Many Law Schools at top universities are separate from their main campus for the same reasons. See Northwestern, Loyola, etc.

    On the second point: CA Western already operates at a surplus. Do you think will happen when the name is changed to UCSD Law School? Do you think they are going to have less quality applicants? Correct, they will have a BETTER quality pool of applicants. The school is currently operating at a surplus and nothing about this affiliation will affect that adversely. Period.

    The economy and UC funding are not factors. This law school will operate if ZERO state funding and create EXTRA REVENUE. The condition of the economy you complain about has only driven more people to enroll in law schools, making them more competitive than ever. What you said only supports the argument that there will be no funding issue. People are literally standing in line to pay $40k in tuition for law school because there are no jobs.
  • MiqueMausMiqueMaus Registered User Posts: 289 Junior Member
    Honestly? I'd rather not attach some TTT law school to UCSD. And defend it as you will, but a law school that isn't ranked and admits people at median LSAT scores isn't exactly one that UCSD would benefit from being associated with.

    There are more than enough unemployed lawyers struggling to survive off of contract work after coming out of bad law schools as is. Let's not turn UCSD into the next Cooley.

    Like Kenny said, its fishy that your only two posts are Right here, and that your first post is some bullet-pointed piece defending the move bringing back a month old post.
  • YNotYNot Registered User Posts: 33 Junior Member
    tmart24 makes some points that can easily be checked out empirically. Either the CA Western Law School operates at a surplus or does not? Either the building are new or they are not?

    The more difficult issue is whether UCSD should lend its name to a Law School that is middling -- even if it is self-suuficient from a funding perspective. UC Irvine spent five years establishing a Law School, getting a name DEan, and attracting its first couple of classes by essentially guaranteeing the whole class full or half tuition scholarships funded by Socal lawyers. Irvine is yet to be ranked but they are spending money to buy legal scholars who are published in top legal journals (which affect law school rankings) and also buying top students (getting them instead of having them go to Harvrad, Yale or Columbia).

    What will UCSD use to distinguish itself if it takesover an existing middle ranked school? How long will take to adopt incremental strategies to develop a unique representation? Why pay $ 40,000 to go to anothe undifferentiated school that does nothing exceptional for your career prospects other than giving you a degree and letting you fend for yourself?????
  • MiqueMausMiqueMaus Registered User Posts: 289 Junior Member
    UC Irvine as a law school will fall out of its position once they start actually charging for tuition. Tuition that is on par with what you would pay for Stanford. Without the same alumni base to extort donations from on an annual basis, UCI isn't going to be moving up anytime soon. Anyone who gets into Yale and turns it down for UCI is also riding a unicorn on a rainbow.

    Good think I don't see this happening anytime soon. At least not until I'm in law school myself and wouldn't really care about degree depreciation or anything like that.
  • YNotYNot Registered User Posts: 33 Junior Member
    It is incredibly difficult to see how you can start a new or brand an existing Law School -- and have it ranked in the early yeras. It is Mission Impossible. Now, if say Princeton University which does NOT have a Law School decided to start one then and only then the Princeton Brand may rub off on its new baby from the start. But, UCSD while a world-class university is not Princeton.

    At least you have to give UCIrvine kudos for trying. They seem to have lined up solid support from the top law firms in Orange & LA County. So at no cost to the UC system, they have a privately-supported law school up and running. That says nothing about ranking. For the first three classes of about 64 students it is nirvana -- free law school and almost guaranteed job at the end of the rainbow. A worthy effort -- hope it succeeds.
  • tmart24tmart24 Registered User Posts: 8 New Member
    At most, it would take 2 or 3 years for UCSD Law to gain the reputation that people are concerned with. As soon as the transition happens, it would be the best law school option in SD, meaning its applicants should make it AT LEAST equivalent to USD's current ranking.

    University of San Diego has the #61 law school in the country, but it's undergraduate program is not in the top 100 (see 2010 US News Rankings). Meanwhile, UCSD is the #7 public school in the nation and #32 overall. USD Law has only become a decent school because there are ZERO other law school's tied to universities in San Diego. UCSD Law would immediately become the best choice in SD.

    So, the only regional competition in a highly desirable area (SD) is a private, religious affiliated school that is not in tier 1 as a university as a whole and not a research 1 school. Meanwhile, UCSD is a top research school with a medical school. The school would instantly become more attractive for intellectual property students and professors because of the opportunities to integrate UCSD's existing science and engineering prowess.

    Professors: if you read the article in San Diego Business Journal, UCSD's president said a 5-10 year plan would be put together to. UCI had to spend a lot bringing in faculty because they didn't already have a law school. The difference in salaries for faculty that will publish will be negligible. To make real money with a J.D., you have to practice, not teach. USC and Harvard both had professor lay-offs in 2009. Do you think any of those folks might want jobs? Who wouldn't want to live in SD?

    Money: It's easy to work out. You can find TONS of sources online that tell you that CWSL operates in the black. That includes giving out many scholarships, which it would continue to do under the UCSD moniker to attract good students.

    Better than UCI immediately: One thing UCI doesn't have yet is a single law school alumni. CWSL is the oldest law school in San Diego and its alumni are a valuable part of the process. Those are the people that will hire you. Whatever you may think of CWSL, its alumni work at DLA Piper, Skadden Arps, Foley, Fish & Richardson, Sheppard Mullin, Greenberg Traurig, Duane Morris, and many other top firms. That's a valuable asset that UCI doesn't have.
This discussion has been closed.