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Recent College Career Outcomes

JBStillFlyingJBStillFlying 7896 replies28 threads Senior Member
From Meredith Daw, Executive Director of Career Advancement:

96% of Class of 2020 students have substantive post-graduation plans, including employment, graduate school, fellowships, and other exciting opportunities

97% of UChicago students and alumni who applied to a Top 20 law school in the 2020 cycle were accepted

85% of UChicago applicants to medical school were accepted in the 2020 cycle, more than double the national acceptance rate

Source is an e-mail to College parents.
10 replies
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Replies to: Recent College Career Outcomes

  • Eeyore123Eeyore123 2230 replies25 threads Senior Member
    edited September 24
    Does UChicago do committee letters for Med School? Some schools do a very good job of prescreening apps that inflates the med school acceptance rate. Wondering if UChicago is one of them.
    edited September 24
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  • PikachuRocks15PikachuRocks15 785 replies3 threads Member
    @Eeyore123 Yes, the "institutional letter of endorsement from the Health and Medicine Committee (HMC), a group of faculty and senior staff with a range of interdisciplinary expertise." UChicago's Pre-Health FAQ says the following about pre-med entering vs. applying:

    https://careeradvancement.uchicago.edu/careers-in/healthcare/pre-health-faqs

    "Usually about 150 entering first-years indicate that they are interested in medical school. Each year, we support approximately 100-125 students and alumni in their applications to medical school. It is important to remember that a big part of the college experience is exploring new interests—both academically and personally—and learning more about the various career paths that are possible. There will absolutely be students who feel certain that they wish to be a physician, but after being on campus, find that their eyes have been opened to a number of different fields that they wish to explore, and possibly to select as the right path for them. Our goal is to assist in this decision-making process and support our students every step of the way."
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  • Mwfan1921Mwfan1921 6108 replies97 threads Senior Member
    Also important to know beyond the committee letter weeding issue:

    --Do the numbers reflect those who applied/were accepted to both MD and DO programs?

    --What types of students are included in the calculation (both numerator and denominator)...any U Chicago grad who was accepted/denied regardless of their year of graduation? Those who completed post-bacc programs? Those who completed an SMP? Those who re-applied?

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  • JBStillFlyingJBStillFlying 7896 replies28 threads Senior Member
    edited September 25
    Eeyore123 wrote: »
    Does UChicago do committee letters for Med School? Some schools do a very good job of prescreening apps that inflates the med school acceptance rate. Wondering if UChicago is one of them.

    Not a med school person but I'm pretty sure the biggest pre-screen would be the pre-med curriculum itself. Other than that, you go through the required application cycle program which begins two years prior to planned matriculation and consists of mandatory info. sessions and counseling. Perhaps there is additional prescreening and re-directing there (med school is not the only health industry option and not even the only clinical option). Those who emerge from all this pre-preprofessional prep with their personal statement, list of schools, and an admission strategy will then be eligible to receive the letter. But even before beginning the application cycle stuff, Careers in Health gets started with you as early as O-Week and then throughout your first year onward. So I'd say that the pre-screening occurs right away. I'd actually call it "discernment" rather than "pre-screening." If Med school is NOT the right choice for you, it's best to know that earlier rather than later so that you can recalibrate your plans and take advantage of other pre-professional opportunities there (including opportunities in health).

    Mwfan1921 wrote: »
    Also important to know beyond the committee letter weeding issue:

    --Do the numbers reflect those who applied/were accepted to both MD and DO programs?

    --What types of students are included in the calculation (both numerator and denominator)...any U Chicago grad who was accepted/denied regardless of their year of graduation? Those who completed post-bacc programs? Those who completed an SMP? Those who re-applied?

    - Given that UC Medicine actually has DO's on staff doing research, I don't believe that the university considers matriculation to this type of medical school to be shameful. However, the university's comparative statistic - 85% vs. 40-42% nationally - applies to allopathic only, I believe. I could be incorrect in that but they've separated out the osteopathic option as an additional clinical program you can apply to if the MD isn't going to work for you. The "typical" list of admitting schools is provided in the faq's so anyone is welcome to peruse those. I believe those are 100% allopathic.
    https://careeradvancement.uchicago.edu/careers-in/healthcare/pre-health-faqs

    - The number in the numerator and denominator will include all who applied in the 2020 cycle, so graduates in 2020 as well as those one - two years earlier for the most part. Those who graduated three or more years prior are encouraged to work with Careers in Health using a different, more individualized approach that makes use of their post-graduate experience. Could be incorrect but I don't believe there are many in that "older" category. There will be some in the numerator and denominator who completed post-bacc programs or re-applied. A lot depends on your goals and what you and your advisor discern to be the best path forward as you go through the Careers-In program and particularly as you enter the two-year-long application cycle. If you stick to that path, then your chances of ending up in medical school are consistently north of 80% and usually around 85% (in recent years). That's how I'd interpret that stat.
    edited September 25
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  • Mwfan1921Mwfan1921 6108 replies97 threads Senior Member
    edited September 25
    No one said, or intimated, that going to DO schools is 'shameful'. DO school admission is a highly desirable outcome.

    UC does provide institutional letters of endorsement (from the Health and Medicine Committee (HMC)).

    It is fair and reasonable for prospective students to ask for transparency around medical school admission numbers when they are making their ug college decision. Some important factors include:

    -What proportion (and absolute number) of students who want to apply to med school receive an institutional letter of endorsement?
    -What are the absolute numbers of applicants (not just percentages) who apply and are accepted to med school (DO and allopathic)? Separated out by UG direct, post-bacc, SMP and re-applicants. (Successful med school applicants coming directly out of undergrad are the minority)
    -Proportion of accepted applicants that are URM
    -Proportion of acceptances by GPA and MCAT score (see WashU for a good example, mirroring the AMCAS report): https://prehealth.wustl.edu/matriculation-acceptance-rates

    When counseling students thru the college admissions process if schools/prehealth depts are not forthcoming with the answers to the above, it is a red flag. Why would a school not share these numbers?
    edited September 25
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  • BKSquaredBKSquared 1811 replies9 threads Senior Member
    edited September 25
    ^Beyond medical school, I think schools should be much more transparent on outcomes for all graduates in absolute numbers as well as percentages. IMO there should be a standard federally mandated outcome disclosure by all schools that are supported by Fed grants/loans. The disclosure should include:

    4/6 year graduation rates
    The following by major: number of graduates, median GPA, percent employed within 1 year, salary range and median salary with a list of representative employers
    Number applied to graduate and professional schools, percentage accepted, median GPA, GRE, MCAT, GMAT, LSAT, as applicable, of those accepted along with a list of representative programs.

    Families are spending a ton of money and possibly going into debt in anticipation of certain outcomes. Taxpayer dollars support a lot of that debt through federal guaranties. If higher education is a product, the consumer needs to know what they are buying into.
    edited September 25
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  • Mwfan1921Mwfan1921 6108 replies97 threads Senior Member
    edited September 25
    BKSquared wrote: »
    ^Beyond medical school, I think schools should be much more transparent on outcomes for all graduates in absolute numbers as well as percentages. IMO there should be a standard federally mandated outcome disclosure by all schools that are supported by Fed grants/loans. The disclosure should include:

    4/6 year graduation rates
    Graduates by major, median GPA, percent employed within 1 year, salary range and median salary with a list of representative employers
    Number applied to graduate and professional schools, percentage accepted, median GPA, GRE, MCAT, GMAT, LSAT, as applicable, of those accepted along with a list of representative programs.

    Families are spending a ton of money and possibly going into debt in anticipation of certain outcomes. Taxpayer dollars support a lot of that debt through federal guaranties. If higher education is a product, the consumer needs to know what they are buying into.

    Agreed. U Dayton is an example of best demonstrated practice in career placement and outcomes, data by school and major can be accessed in reports on this page: https://udayton.edu/careerservices/stats/ffdsreports/index.php
    edited September 25
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  • JBStillFlyingJBStillFlying 7896 replies28 threads Senior Member
    edited September 25
    The information that BKSquared requests is easily accessible on most college websites and of course via federally-mandated sites such as College Navigator, Scorecard, etc. Wouldn't call a college education a "product" but like any large decision involving time and treasure you should know what you are getting into. Discussions about federal student loans are well beyond the scope of this thread, but I couldn't agree more that students and families should be well informed going into the process and that taxpayers should insist upon that.
    Mwfan1921 wrote: »
    It is fair and reasonable for prospective students to ask for transparency around medical school admission numbers when they are making their ug college decision. Some important factors include:

    -What proportion (and absolute number) of students who want to apply to med school receive an institutional letter of endorsement?
    -What are the absolute numbers of applicants (not just percentages) who apply and are accepted to med school (DO and allopathic)? Separated out by UG direct, post-bacc, SMP and re-applicants. (Successful med school applicants coming directly out of undergrad are the minority)
    -Proportion of accepted applicants that are URM
    -Proportion of acceptances by GPA and MCAT score (see WashU for a good example, mirroring the AMCAS report): https://prehealth.wustl.edu/matriculation-acceptance-rates

    When counseling students thru the college admissions process if schools/prehealth depts are not forthcoming with the answers to the above, it is a red flag. Why would a school not share these numbers?

    - Schools might not share those numbers because some of them are potentially invasive for a smaller pre-med program such as exists at UChicago. Careers-In provides the average MCAT (north of 515) and representative GPA numbers for those accepted to med school. What more does someone need at that stage? This process is highly individualized beyond that and it starts early on (usually prior to beginning your first year). It would be completely inappropriate, say, for various ethnic populations to be benchmarked against other similar ethnic groups. The value-added of UChicago's pre-med program is that the curriculum is a slam-dunk for adequate preparation and that the pre-professional advising is comprehensive and specific to the needs of the individual student. It's not exactly a "pre-med mill" that they are running over there in Hyde Park.

    - The letter of endorsement is SOP for those using Careers-In to apply to med school. You are expected to have one and you are expected to complete the needed application preparation satisfactorily in order to receive one. No one's rolling the dice here, and the support is comprehensive. Students will begin their undergraduate with sorts of priors; some will be determined and knowledgable about the process, others won't have a clue (yet). So it's irrelevant for someone to consider such up front "chances" as a criterion for doing pre-med at UChicago - or anywhere. Look at the curriculum; look at the details of the advising program. Those should be your criteria.
    edited September 25
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  • BKSquaredBKSquared 1811 replies9 threads Senior Member
    edited September 25
    The information currently available is not easily accessed and often needs to be pieced together. What is measured and the methodology is not always consistent. The average family should be able to access for free a simple standardized apples to apples comparison of basic facts for each college (e.g. size, cost, demographics, avg class size, key admissions data), including certain outcomes.
    edited September 25
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  • JBStillFlyingJBStillFlying 7896 replies28 threads Senior Member
    edited September 25
    ^ Maybe. But most kids have fairly good google-foo so perhaps they can be of assistance to their parents in piecing all this together. The college admissions process rewards the clever, who know how to focus on which schools can deliver the biggest bang for the (net cost) buck. You will never be able to add everything that should be added to such a database of information. However, if one is ever created, perhaps they should add the link to the school forum on College Confidential as well :wink:

    My own preference is to pull the data piecemeal as that's the only way to assure getting the most current numbers. But that's just me . . .
    edited September 25
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