Welcome to College Confidential!

The leading college-bound community on the web

Sign Up For Free

Join for FREE, and start talking with other members, weighing in on community discussions, and more.

Also, by registering and logging in you'll see fewer ads and pesky welcome messages (like this one!)

As a CC member, you can:

  • Reply to threads, and start your own.
  • Post reviews of your campus visits.
  • Find hundreds of pages of informative articles.
  • Search from over 3 million scholarships.
Introducing a New Expert Content Section: Careers!

Waste of Tuition Money/Donations

irish68178irish68178 Registered User Posts: 2,209 Senior Member
edited July 2009 in University of Notre Dame
Those who know me know that I have defended Notre Dame on finances, but I think this is out of line. Notre Dame contributions to help soften budget blow for local communities | WSBT South Bend - Your Local News Leader | Local News Notre Dame has always had a poor relationship with South Bend so I see this as ND trying to repair that relationship. However, I don't think this is the right way to do it. It is a great gift, but there are better places to spend this money. I certainly would not want my alumni donations to go to the city of South Bend, I give them money when I come to town for a football game.

Thoughts?
Post edited by irish68178 on

Replies to: Waste of Tuition Money/Donations

  • LucidfighterLucidfighter Registered User Posts: 54 Junior Member
    I've always been under the impression that Notre Dame is somewhat aloof from South Bend. Not in a bad way I might add. When I wrote my admission essay I was stressing taking bold steps towards charity and helping humanity, and thus I don't necessarily disagree with this step that Notre Dame has taken. After all, like you said, it does help repair or strengthen the relationship between this school and South Bend, but on the flip side, I would assume that there's a reason behind the budget shortfall in the first place. And in my opinion, free, no strings attached hand outs don't generally spur self-determination. I'm just hoping that South Bend will use this wisely.
  • NDAlum05NDAlum05 Registered User Posts: 16 New Member
    $500,000 a year for 10 years to help bring better professors and better staff to Notre Dame and to help the local communities is worth it to me. The surrounding communities contribute so much to Notre Dame that I feel it is OK to give them a small donation in their time of need. If this money allows South Bend to keep more Police and Firefighters employed and helps keep the surrounding area safe then I am happy to keep giving money to ND.
  • GretaGreta Registered User Posts: 703 Member
    I'm actually surprised that this is a new thing for ND. Many colleges and universities do this: it is called voluntary payments in lieu of taxes. It seems like the right thing to do.
    South Bend Tribune: Notre Dame gives back to local governments
    "Although not required by law, some colleges and universities across the country make voluntary payments to build relationships and to help support their communities.

    For example, Harvard University has made voluntary payments in lieu of taxes to Cambridge (Mass.) since 1928, when Harvard was among the first universities in the country to do so. In 2007 Harvard paid a total of $15 million to Cambridge, including taxes, a payments-in-lieu-of-taxes program and fees, the New England Real Estate Journal reported. Harvard also makes voluntary payments to the city of Boston."
  • aristophanesaristophanes Registered User Posts: 176 Junior Member
    As Greta says, this is common. The University of Chicago, for example, has been sponsoring urban renewal projects in Hyde Park since the 1950s. It makes sense to do this; ideally it promotes a symbiotic relationship.
  • irish68178irish68178 Registered User Posts: 2,209 Senior Member
    Well, I suppose I am alone on the issue. That is probably a good sign, it means that they are likely right and I am wrong. I still am not sure I like it though.
  • clock26clock26 Registered User Posts: 79 Junior Member
    I totally disagree with your post, NDalum. The Community does so much for ND? Maybe I am being naive, but i would suspect the relationship is mostly one way. Without the university and the $$ it brings it, South Bend would be approaching Gary status.

    Also, i don't feel that the police really act to keep the community "safe". Out busting drinking parties every weekend, so that on monday we can read in the observer about the numerous muggings and assaults on students?

    Painting the picture as being one in which ND somehow benefits does not seem to be the right one.
  • shellzie2006shellzie2006 Registered User Posts: 1,267 Senior Member
    I completely agree with clock26. South Bend depends on Notre Dame to supply jobs through the university and for all the businesses that survive on the business that comes from the students, professors, and football fans that ND brings in. If it weren't for ND, no one would ever voluntarily go to South Bend- I certainly wouldn't. And SBPD just preys on student parties as a source of easy revenue. They don't stop much of the violent crime or property damage that actually hurts both ND students and South Bend residents.
  • NDAlum05NDAlum05 Registered User Posts: 16 New Member
    Clock, so you are saying the university and its students would be better off with less firefighters and policemen on the streets of south bend? If the police don't keep the streets safe, who does? "Numerous muggings and assaults"...where are you getting your information from? Read the facts Safety Brochure and Clery Act // Notre Dame Security Police // University of Notre Dame

    Shellzie, I suppose visiting family in SB is not voluntary or visiting the college football hall of fame, the silverhawks or the zoo. Notre Dame is a major attraction, but not the only one. How does the PD profit from parties? As far as I know, taxes pay for the Police. I don't think fining 20 students $100 pays for salaries or new police cars.

    Notre Dame and south bend have a mutual relationship, without it, neither can make the football games or ND events possible. No police to direct traffic or firemen to respond to emergencies (or even a smaller amount) can be bad for both the city and ND.
  • shellzie2006shellzie2006 Registered User Posts: 1,267 Senior Member
    No, I believe he was saying that South Bend would be better off if the police focused on stopping violent crime and property damage rather than picking on drunk students. And we aren't talking about Notre Dame/NDSP (which is where your stats come from), we are talking about South Bend/SBPD. South Bend DOES have a crime problem: South Bend Crime Statistics and Crime Data (South Bend, IN)

    I was using a bit of hyperbole there, but I think it can be said that much fewer people would make the trek to South Bend if ND wasn't there. Sure, people would still visit family in South Bend, just like people still visit family in Gary... And a few people might visit the college football hall of fame, but I think most of the people who go see that are the many football fans who are drawn to South Bend because they have come to see a Notre Dame football game... And there are a lot of zoos in this country, many of them in much nicer cities than South Bend... Most people visit these other places in South Bend because they are already in town and need something to do. People don't travel across the country to see the South Bend zoo.

    And MIP fines might not be the main source of revenue, but they are one way that governments make money. They certainly make more money and probably expend less manpower busting a party than by stopping a mugging.

    Many of the things in South Bend that are useful to Notre Dame sprung up because of the university and would have done so even if South Bend didn't exist- the city of Notre Dame would just be a bit bigger. And would probably have a lower crime rate. As it is, we do have an unavoidable connection to the city of South Bend, but it still seems a bit one-sided to me...
  • clock26clock26 Registered User Posts: 79 Junior Member
    Im saying that your statement "If this money allows South Bend to keep more Police and Firefighters employed and helps keep the surrounding area safe " is false. Adding more police will not help keep the area safe. As shellzie has posted, SB, not necessarily ND, is a pretty rough area. But every weekend, you see them out busting parties and things of that nature.

    Second, lets not be silly. Yes, people would visit SB without ND. But what fraction of the visitors would it be? I'd be willing to say 1/10th, and I wouldn't be surprised if its quite a bit lower. None of my family, friends, etc, have ever mentioned going to SB on a day trip or anything. I live near Chicago, and ND is about a 2 hr drive. No one goes just to hang out. I'm not sure if there are statistics available, but I would not be surprised if ND and those who come to ND bring in about 75% of the cities revenue through taxes and consumption. How many of the buildings and attractions that got built are there solely because of ND? Do you think they would have just chosen to put the College Football Hall of Fame there without the storied history of the dome? Let's face it, without ND, South Bend is a pretty dead city.

    And what does the city give to ND? Not too much. The police thing may not bring in much revenue, but its the idea of it. ND does everything for the city, and we get little back.
  • hawkswim09hawkswim09 Registered User Posts: 1,222 Senior Member
    ND is a Catholic schools and one principle is that you are supposed to give without expecting a reward. Why can't ND give voluntarily to South Bend without expecting anything in return. Granted it is our tuition, but parts of our tuition are going to things that we don't use either.
  • clock26clock26 Registered User Posts: 79 Junior Member
    the point is that all ND does is give to SB. I see no reason to give even more, taking away from money that could be used to support students.
  • irish68178irish68178 Registered User Posts: 2,209 Senior Member
    Hawkswim09 said "ND is a Catholic schools and one principle is that you are supposed to give without expecting a reward. Why can't ND give voluntarily to South Bend without expecting anything in return. Granted it is our tuition, but parts of our tuition are going to things that we don't use either."

    ND can give their money out to whomever they want, but I give my money to support the ND's mission of education, not its mission of helping South Bend. I am a grad student and make $10,000 a year, I don't have much disposable income (if any). If ND has enough money to give to South Bend, then I don't feel that my money should go there instead of to food as they obviously must have enough money to fulfill their primary mission. That is all I am saying.
  • hawkswim09hawkswim09 Registered User Posts: 1,222 Senior Member
    If I understand, you are saying that ND should lower its tuition instead of giving the South Bend. I think we can all agree that ND's tuition is very steep. ND's endowment means they don't need to charge as much. But if you give to ND by donations, then ND should be able to do what it feels best and give to South Bend as a charity-act.

    I completely agree that the tuition is too high, but ND's endowment won't hurt a bit if they give the 5.5 million to South Bend. they do use the endowment and donations to construct a number of buildings/ improvements which is much greater that 5.5 million.

    If ND wanted to lower tuition they it could do that and give to South Bend.
This discussion has been closed.