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CC's Sally Rubenstone in Daily Pennsylvanian

Roger_DooleyRoger_Dooley Founder 6083 replies100309 threads Senior Member
Sally Rubenstone, Senior Counselor at CC, is quoted in Pondering Affirmative Action for Gays.
edited August 2007
19 replies
Post edited by Roger_Dooley on
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Replies to: CC's Sally Rubenstone in Daily Pennsylvanian

  • rrenaccirrenacci 40 replies15 threads Junior Member
    That just isn't right.
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  • JyankeesSS2JyankeesSS2 1970 replies51 threads Senior Member
    That's pretty gay. (see what I did there? lol...)
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  • coot66coot66 454 replies50 threads Member
    Unless there's going to be a new section on the application that allows you to check gay or straight, or the applicant makes his essay a cliche coming out of the closet one, there's no way this can be implimented. And even if it could be, why? Everyone deserves the same chance; being gay shouldn't help put you get accepted over a straight candidate!

    This Penn not NYU!

    -The Straight Coot66
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  • kwijiborjtkwijiborjt 721 replies29 threads Member
    :) I wrote one of my supplements about observing two of my closeted friends, and how their behavior is different in NYC and in my home suburb. Then i compared it to how my behavior is pretty much the same anywhere i go. I thought it was interesting, but i do agree that a coming out essay is pretty trite, and probably too emotional to be effective unless the writer has a lot of self control.

    Eh, AA for GLBT people would never happen, although i certainly wouldn't mind it. It would be too iffy... anyone can claim to be gay and actually be straight (or somewhere inbetween...). Although, i'm of the camp that AA should be solely based on economic status/academic opportunities. What does your race matter if you're parents are super rich and you've gone to fantastic private schools?
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  • paro46paro46 1240 replies16 threads Senior Member
    ^ exactly `````
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  • croutoncrouton 1189 replies156 threads Senior Member
    i second jyyanks...

    and yea, i could just say im gay on an appp... how r they gonna check?? make me send them a video? its just unfeasible
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  • kenonekenone 66 replies10 threads Junior Member
    "i'm of the camp that AA should be solely based on economic status/academic opportunities." kwijiborjt, I completely agree with you. Haha, and anyway.. yeah, I'd probably say I was gay if it would help my chance of admission... theres no way to check and if the college wants that as a factor in admission they're basically inviting people to lie.
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  • gmurguiagmurguia 125 replies9 threads Junior Member
    Something to think about though is I'm hispanic, dual citizen from Mexico, and I come from a pretty well off family. People criticize that the rich often have advantages but in truth I was never raised to do well in school, it's not a big part of the Mexican culture. Both my siblings are horrible students and all of my also well off mexican friends are in the botton 20% of the class. I did well in school and was able to get into wharton because of my own determination, even though all the people around me were at the bottom of the academic barrel and most times aere a weight for my academic behavior. I wasnt raised, as are most white Americans, thinking that college is of the utmost importance but instead my parents would be relatively indifferent if I did well in school( But of course my parents are now ecstatic that i got into penn). Also, like most 1st gen hispanics the language is somewhat of a barrier to do well, because at home I'm not even allowed to speak english, and all my friends speak spanish.
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  • Ernie H.Ernie H. 1199 replies25 threads Senior Member
    Ummm... one question nobody seems to be bringing up: even if there was a fool-proof way to idenify GLBT applicants... well... WHY SHOULD THEY RECIEVE ANY ADVANTAGE???? What possible reason could someone use to advocate AA for gays??
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  • Venkat89Venkat89 7222 replies105 threads Senior Member
    Having some GLBT (well I disagree about transgender because I find it creepy, but whatever) is good for campus diversity, but being homosexual or bisexual can't really be verified without prying really deep into someone's personal life. It is almost impossible to double check what someone marks off, so what's the point of asking anyway? Also, Middlebury is doing AA for GLBT or is trying to see how they can make their college seem more gay friendly or something like that.

    "i'm of the camp that AA should be solely based on economic status/academic opportunities."
    This only works at colleges that can be need blind and meet 100% of demonstrated need (so pretty much the Ivys and a few other top private colleges) because most colleges in the country can't afford to give that much need based aid to qualified applicants and would rather admit less qualified applicants who can donate money and pay the full cost. What is the point of admitting an applicant if they won't be able to afford to go? Also, the Ivys are making lots of efforts to expand their applicant pool and try to attract and admit more low income students, so there is some push for low income/less opportunity kids.
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  • CC AdminCC Admin Administrator 29512 replies3011 threads Senior Member
    if they do it, all applicants will be gay @[email protected]

    and dats pretty gay lol
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  • takeme2calitakeme2cali 1161 replies63 threads Senior Member
    since I believe all gay people should have equal rights and oppurtunity as straight people, since people are born this way, I think it is only fair that they have the same consideration as straights. AKA, no affirmative action!
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  • CC AdminCC Admin Administrator 29512 replies3011 threads Senior Member
    exactly! no aa =)
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  • mj93mj93 - 3438 replies163 threads Senior Member
    it would be so easy to just lie and say you were gay. they would need proof, like testimony from a reliable source that knows the applicant well.
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  • tux08902tux08902 1015 replies121 threads Senior Member
    This whole affirmative action thing is getting a bit out of hand, I think.

    To mj93, even that wouldn't work. Okay, psychologists have noted that gay mean have higher estrogen levels than straight men, but that's not for every gay out there. Lesbians aren't noted for any abnormality in body chemistry. It's simply just a choice, and you could choose the other way just to get a leg up on admissions and then choose to become straight again.

    This will not work.
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  • 'tisthetruth'tisthetruth . 753 replies112 threads Member
    I don't support affirmative action for gays. Instead, they should simply increase the number of gay applicants and let them get in on their own merits.

    To the poster who thinks that people can just change their sexual orientation overnight, get your facts straight. They might *pretend* they're gay, but they really can't turn gay. I don't even have to cite evidence here to support this claim. I'll just point you to the medical establishment, because their stance is so well-known already.
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  • abhim89abhim89 521 replies8 threads Member
    Instead, they should simply increase the number of gay applicants and let them get in on their own merits.

    it isnt "simple" to increase the number of APPLICANTS to a school, especially from just one specific group. penn cant really help who sends in applications and who doesn't.

    i believe that the only type of "affirmative action" should be the kind that normalizes competition by helping a certain group: people who did not have the same opportunity to "shine," but had the POTENTIAL to be superior applicants if they had similar opportunities. "socioeconomic action" would be best. people who 1) couldnt afford SAT tutors or 2) had to work to support their families rather than participate in extracurricular activities should be given an advantage, regardless of their race.

    homosexuality does not prevent one from engaging in extracurriculars, getting access to standardized test preparation, etc. therefore, a new type of "action" helping the LGBT community is unnecessary. since the common application and penn apps don't even ask for sexual orientation, both 1) screening for and 2) performing affirmative action for homosexuals would be difficult anyway.
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  • kwolfendenkwolfenden 79 replies16 threads Junior Member
    I find it a little offensive that we're looking at sexuality in terms of gay vs. straight. At least in the LGBTQ community in my town, deviation from heterosexuality is thought to be more of a fluid thing (i.e. the Kinsey scale -- sexuality on a 1-6 scale, assuming most people are somewhere in the middle) instead of just 100% either way. It's about getting rid of labels and not putting people in boxes, but gay vs. straight kinda defeats the purpose. Andddd, as cheesy as it is, that divides people based on their sexuality, instead of accommodating everyone.

    "since I believe all gay people should have equal rights and oppurtunity as straight people, since people are born this way, I think it is only fair that they have the same consideration as straights. AKA, no affirmative action!"
    I agree on principle, but gay people typically do have a much harder time staying in school and graduating (what with getting kicked out, harassed, etc.). It's the same as affirmative action for other races, assuming they aren't given as much opportunity. Do you also disagree with the latter? (I'm just curious - personally, I'm not exactly sure what I think.)

    And abhim89, like I just said -- in some places, LGBTQ kids do get a lot of crap. Of course they can still take tests and things, but:

    LGBTQ Youth in School

    * 41.7% of LGBTQ youth do not feel safe in their school.
    * 28% of gay teens drop out of school annually, three times the national average.
    * 69% of LGBTQ youth reported experiencing some form of harassment or violence.
    * 46% of LGBTQ youth reported verbal harassment, 36.4% reported sexual harassment, 12.1% reported physical harassment, 6.1% reported physical assault.
    * 86.7% of LGBTQ youth reported sometimes or frequently hearing homophobic remarks.
    * 36.6% of LGBTQ youth reported hearing homophobic remarks from faculty or school staff

    I know you can never really trust statistics, but regardless of the percentages . . . and again, I don't think LGBTQ kids should get an edge just for checking a box, but maybe they could use their struggles or whatever to explain lackluster grades or something? This is all so subjective.
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  • funployeefunployee 760 replies35 threads Member
    I understand this whole debate and I completely agree with all you guys that AA should not go to GLBTs. With religion, economic status, minorities, and all that others tuff, they can double check that and should be 100%, but with this, you could just lie and say you were gay.
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