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When you apply to Penn, you pick one school.

tenebrousfiretenebrousfire 2487 replies44 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
edited November 2011 in University of Pennsylvania
Here's your possible options for applying.

1) You apply to the undergraduate school of your choice. That would be SAS (the College), SEAS, Wharton, or Nursing.

There are no second-choice options here. If you don't get into Wharton, then you don't get into Penn.

2) You apply to the joint-degree program of your choice. That would be Huntsman (SAS + Wharton), M&T (SEAS + Wharton), Nursing/HCMG (Nursing + Wharton), or LSM (SAS + Wharton).

There is a second-choice option available here, in that you pick which school (but only one school) that you would like to be considered for if you are not accepted to the joint-degree program.

These are your only two options.

So please stop asking if you can be considered for SAS if you don't get into Wharton.

Thanks!
edited November 2011
68 replies
Post edited by tenebrousfire on
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Replies to: When you apply to Penn, you pick one school.

  • undisclosedundisclosed 829 replies136 threadsRegistered User Member
    Haha, pro-active aren't you?

    I liked that post, thanks.

    Quick questions if you don't mind:

    1- I'm really, really aiming for the SAS but would still like to take some business classes and maybe a minor in Wharton. Possible??

    2- What's the admission rate for Huntsman? Lower than for the college? Higher than Wharton?
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  • ilovebagelsilovebagels 3433 replies66 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    1. As a SASer you can take any Wharton class save for MGMT-100. There are literally more College classes that Wharton students can't take than the other way around.

    SAS has been debating adding a BFLAT minor (Business, Finance, Leadership, And Teamwork) I believe. I don't know what will come of that, but it's not actually done through Wharton (which as of yet has refused to cooperate--the new dean may very well fix that).

    Anyway, while waiting for that whole mess to get sorted out, you can indeed take a bunch of Wharton classes (many even qualify to count for some SAS majors). You can list them under coursework, but as of now you will not receive any sort of "Wharton minor certificate."

    2. Huntsman is harder to get into than College and Wharton. It's primo stuff.
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  • mattwondermattwonder 1258 replies9 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    I'll add this:

    I wouldn't wait around for the BFLAT minor (worst name evar, shows how JV the college can be sometimes). It's going to get no support from Wharton, and let's face it: Penn students don't want a business education, they want a _Wharton_ education. There's no such thing as a Wharton "minor" either.

    However, you can take pretty much any Wharton class you would want, if you're interested.
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  • Percy SkivinsPercy Skivins 565 replies1 threadsRegistered User Member
    I think the BFLAT idea is the dumbest idea ever - Penn already has a business school - it doesn't need a second one. Maybe there should be a trade - SAS can have a business major if Wharton can open its own gender studies dept. There appears to be a substantial minority of SAS students who secretly (or not so secretly) wish that they had really gotten into Wharton. Rather than play into these people with a BFLAT major, they should be discouraged. If you want an undergrad business education, transfer. If you can't get into Wharton, transfer to Stern or Mich. or somewhere else. Maybe this program should be called "WINO" - Wharton in Name Only.
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  • feikuaifeikuai 147 replies2 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    Haha BFLAT minor is a music key. WINO is pretty good too I guess
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  • phillySASer08phillySASer08 767 replies4 threadsRegistered User Member
    Percy, I would note that BFLAT would be a MINOR rather than a major, so it would hardly be different than the several 'University Minors' already in existence. I agree that the name is silly, and that only Wharton wannabees would be likely to enroll, but it would hardly be the same as 'adding a second business school.'
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  • 45 Percenter45 Percenter 4187 replies93 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    It WOULD completely undercut the whole One University concept of interdisciplinary study among the various schools, which is supposed to be Penn's signature strength. Sometimes I really have to wonder what the powers-that-be at Penn could possibly be thinking.
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  • Percy SkivinsPercy Skivins 565 replies1 threadsRegistered User Member
    Phillysaser08:

    I propose a new "University Minor" for Wharton Students. It would be called "BUL****":

    Bioethics, Urban Studies, Latino Studies, Sociology, History of Science, International Relations, and Theater Arts. I agree that only PC tools would want to enroll but it would hardly be the same as adding a second liberal arts school.

    You really have to see "BFLAT" for what it is - some kind of pandering to people who didn't get into Wharton but want some kind of Penn/business credential to put on their resumes. I can understand why people who didn't get into Wharton would want to do this, but I have no idea why it is in the University's (as opposed to SAS's) best interest to cater to such base motives. What principled reasons could be given for the creation of WINO's?
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  • legendofmaxlegendofmax 4528 replies209 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    It really does seem to erode the power behind the one-university concept, but meh.
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  • Venkat89Venkat89 7222 replies105 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    I really don't see the need for the minor. You can take as many business classes in Wharton as you can fit into your schedule, so do you really need to have a minor on your degree to have those classes help you get a job out of college?
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  • ilovebagelsilovebagels 3433 replies66 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    It won't last in its current state.
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  • phillySASer08phillySASer08 767 replies4 threadsRegistered User Member
    I would see no problem with giving wharton students the options for some sort of liberal arts minor full of fluffy stuff, PPE is already in place. While I agree that the BFLAT minor is a pander to students who want some wharton cred, these people certainly aren't wharton rejects, as noted in the title of this thread, so saying that it caters to people who 'didn't get into wharton' is rather disingenuous.

    I personally fail to see how it would undercut the 'one university concept as well' If some students want a note on their transcript that says they took a bunch of wharton classes, I don't really see the problem with it from that sort of standpoint. Where I do see a problem is that it could lead to an increase in the number of wharton backdoor candidates to the college, students who would figure that if they ended up not being able to get the grades to do an internal transfer, then they'd just settle for the next best thing.
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  • Peach ChardonnayPeach Chardonnay 348 replies12 threads- Member
    what's the acceptance rate for wharton and hunstman?
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  • Percy SkivinsPercy Skivins 565 replies1 threadsRegistered User Member
    Wharton around 10%. Huntsman lower.
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  • Percy SkivinsPercy Skivins 565 replies1 threadsRegistered User Member
    "these people certainly aren't wharton rejects, as noted in the title of this thread, so saying that it caters to people who 'didn't get into Wharton' is rather disingenuous."

    First of all "Wharton rejects" are your words, not mine - I said "didn't get into Wharton", which is objectively true. Whether they COULD or might have gotten into Wharton is a different question, but I'm inclined to guess no in most cases - most of the potential WINOs are people who self assessed themselves as not being able to get into Wharton so they didn't even try. Needless to say this is a small (but not insignificant, as the fact that they are trying to organize a minor for them attests) percentage of all SAS students. Try this thought experiment - tomorrow Wharton announces that any College student who wants to may freely transfer to Wharton. How many SAS students would take this offer up? 100 per class, 200? More?
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  • tenebrousfiretenebrousfire 2487 replies44 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    ah this is really going off topic guys, maybe you should make a new thread "the merits of the b-flat proposal"

    but in general i don't think that the college should try to copy wharton by having its own finance, marketing, etc. classes independently; it's just going to make things messy, especially if the faculty are all different.

    if there's going to be a minor, it should include wharton classes.
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  • 45 Percenter45 Percenter 4187 replies93 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    I personally fail to see how it would undercut the 'one university concept as well' If some students want a note on their transcript that says they took a bunch of wharton classes, I don't really see the problem with it from that sort of standpoint. Where I do see a problem is that it could lead to an increase in the number of wharton backdoor candidates to the college, students who would figure that if they ended up not being able to get the grades to do an internal transfer, then they'd just settle for the next best thing.
    The problem--and the reason it would undercut the "one university" concept--is that the courses in this proposed business minor offered by the College would NOT be Wharton courses, but would be newly created courses offered through the Fels Institute and the College:

    College pushes for minor in business* - News

    It would be the functional equivalent of Wharton offering its own liberal arts courses for Wharton undergrads, so that they wouldn't have to withstand the rigors of more difficult liberal arts courses offered by the College. A bad idea all around.
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  • Percy SkivinsPercy Skivins 565 replies1 threadsRegistered User Member
    The quote from the College senior on the committee to set this up was very telling: 'many [College] students view Wharton classes as "too difficult and not worth their time." ' They should have briefed her better on the talking points - this was NOT supposed to be one of them. Jeez, if I was trying to pitch this I could have done a much better job at spin.

    In other words, they want SAS to set up Wharton-lite classes that are easier and require less work but would still appear on the transcript as " Penn business" courses. Maybe if you are lucky the employers will get confused and mistake them for Wharton classes. Also so the College students don't have to sit in the same classes as those annoying grade grubbing Wharton types. As I said before, they should trade - in return Wharton should be able to set up it's own Folklore dept., except the courses would be easier and require less work. Oh wait, that would be impossible - work cannot be a negative number.

    As has already been stated, College students are free to take courses at the #1 undergrad B-school in the US, as many as they can fit in the course distribution for their SAS majors. If they want more than that, they should ask to transfer or do a dual degree. Nor does the idea of a Wharton "minor" make sense - the whole idea of Wharton is that it is a comprehensive undergrad business training program (together with lots of non-business courses to produce a well rounded education) that builds up from a foundation of core course up to more specialized courses. If you skip the core, you may not "get" the more advanced courses (one reason they are "too difficult" for College students who parachute in) and if you take only the core you won't really learn anything of direct application - you can't build a house without a foundation and you can't live in just a foundation. So there is rightly no such thing as a "Wharton minor" for SAS students.



    Places like Fels are always looking to expand their turf, but it's supposed to be the job of the administration to swat down dumb and duplicative ideas like this.
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  • NeoStrifeNeoStrife 80 replies4 threadsRegistered User Junior Member
    If you are in SAS, there are no classes from Wharton you're not allowed to take except for Management 100 in the Fall semester because it has limited seats. You would face this same obstacle if you were an Econ major trying to get into a high level philosophy class reserved for majors. If you really want to take management 100 you could take it in the off semester. If you max out your SAS 4 Wharton Electives, you can apply for additional classes. For example, ive taken a few high-level stat that is only offered through wharton. Thus, my application for more classes would be approved since these stat classes are for my math minor (and are not electives).

    If someone is debating between wharton and SAS, and not sure what you want to do, just do SAS. Many successful people have a more theory-based approach for their undergrad (and take the same jobs that wharton kids apply for) and you may well find that wharton classes are much less substantive than SAS classes of similar nature (econ, etc.)

    From my personal perspective, I find that wharton students are not able to compete quantitatively with SAS and engineering students, most likely because their classes are sort of fluffy / easy and only "difficult" because of a non-informative curve (easy tests with high averages, where the grade variance is very low).
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  • mattwondermattwonder 1258 replies9 threadsRegistered User Senior Member
    ^Not entirely true. If you take too many classes in Wharton when you're not, you can get put on academic probation. I've seen it happen; it's hilarious.

    I've never seen a SAS kid (outside of math and physics majors) be competitive quantitatively. Wharton vs. SEAS quantitative stuff - that's another story and there's merits to both Excel-style math and differential equations-style math.
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