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Barack Obama to speak at 2008 Commencement

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Replies to: Barack Obama to speak at 2008 Commencement

  • JustADad2JustADad2 Registered User Posts: 42 Junior Member
    Do you realize how ridiculous it is to interject politics on a college message board?

    Do everyone a favor and post your thoughts on another message board.
  • krongmankrongman - Posts: 78 Junior Member
    do yourself a favor and stop being so self-important. i sure hope the 30 seconds you spent reading my post didn't do you any lasting damage.
  • Leibow11Leibow11 Registered User Posts: 45 Junior Member
    BTW, I have no use for Hillary either. I'm guessing you're still a student by your opinions? Wait until you get out in the real world. You may see things differently. I think you need to look at what Obama will do to capital gains taxes, inheritance taxes, spending on welfare, etc. The middle class will get clobbered. Once he gets into office he will no longer be middle class now will he? As for the wars we're in. I agree it's not the best situation. But, I had friends die in the World Trade Center. Did you? Do you know what it's like to have a war in your own backyard? Did you see the WT Center and people jumping out the windows?Perhaps you want to wait until something happens in your neighborhood before you decide it's time to act instead of talk. How many innocent people were being killed in Iraq because they had different religious beliefs or disagreed with the government. Gee, we were communicating with Hitler in the 30's? Did us a lot of good while he was killing millions of innocent people and invading countries. I don't blame you for your beliefs. And you have every right to them. You haven't experienced the real world and your opinions are based on what others have told you or you read in the papers. You are an idealist and that's great. Some day you may see things differently. Perhaps after you experience real life, not just the classroom. And that something new and different is not always better.
  • johnwesleyjohnwesley - Posts: 4,610 Senior Member
    I knew people who died in the Trade Center. I know people who've died senseless, tragic deaths. Stop playing misery poker. You've made your point, now keep moving.
  • millerw16millerw16 Registered User Posts: 32 Junior Member
    My rant in the last message was a little uncalled for. I assume when people call Obama "scary" and a completely unreasonable candidate they are either talking about Jeremiah Wright, his potential anti-semitism, or other ridiculous charges that have little-to-no grounding in fact (what your preacher believes is NOT what you believe).


    To the guy playing the "The World Changed after 9/11" card and that just because we are students we aren't aware of the "Real World", you misread Krongman's post. I don't think we would agree that we have to talk to al Qaeda just as we wouldn't talk to the Nazis. However, presenting ourselves to the Muslim world not with guns and our bunker busters, but showing them our way of life and not as infidels who disrespect their culture. You tap into the crowd that the extreme Muslims recruit from, and you win their hearts and minds.

    If you did understand Krongman's post, and still drew the Nazi parallel, your post crosses the line into just blatant prejudice against Muslim people.
  • krongmankrongman - Posts: 78 Junior Member
    leibow your point about having friends who died on 9/11 doesn't make you any better at formulating foreign policy or dealing with the muslim world. sorry for your loss, but I still don't think it entitled America to attack Iraq, a country with no connection to terrorism or the events of 9/11, and unleash all the suffering that wars have brought and always will bring on the Iraqi (and our own) people. and for the record two kids who i was close to in high school lost their dad in the pentagon on 9/11, so I wasn't completely unaffected.

    i'm no idealist. i'm a pragmatist, and you should be too. i analyze things. and so, without further ado:

    "capital gains taxes, inheritance taxes, spending on welfare, etc. The middle class will get clobbered."

    Spending on welfare? As in Obama is going to increase or decrease spending on welfare? If he increases welfare spending, as I hope he does, I'm all for it. I've always believed society should help its less-fortunate members, and you, as a self-proclaimed member of the middle class, should too. I'm pretty sure he's not going to decrease welfare spending.

    Capital gains taxes? You mean the money that rich people make playing the stock market, which then gets taxed and benefits the state a little bit before it gets squirreled away into offshore bank accounts in the Bahamas or the Cayman Islands? Which Bush cut massively while we suffer the worst budget deficit in history? Oh yeah, those. I don't see anything about taxing money you, a member of the middle class, make from the stock market (which isn't REAL MONEY to begin with) and using it to pay for us to go overseas to play World Policemen (a role the rest of the world, somehow, doesn't want us to paly) and kill some brown/black/yellow/orange/purple people, which you seem to advocate when you talk about Iraq. Or, Heaven forbid, to support the poor; even though you tremble with rage at the mere mention of increasing welfare spending, I for one think it's a worthy cause, worthier perhaps than another half-cocked war.

    As for the inheritance tax? It never took EVERYTHING. The purpose of it is to prevent an ancestral American noble class from forming by prohibiting one generation of Gatsbys from passing on its massive wealth to the next. I for one see nothing wrong with that aim. God knows we have enough privilege in this country already. As for you, a self-proclaimed member of the middle class? Work harder at your job. Make real money. Don't play the lottery, don't gamble, don't expect a huge windfall of money from dead relatives (money you didn't legitimately earn through your own labor), and you'll be in good shape. The inheritance tax increases meritocracy in this country and I am all for that.

    Everything you've cited are examples of things which help wealthy people far, far more than the middle class. I fail to see, in fact, just how the "middle class" will get clobbered on all these issues. Furthermore, as I understand it, all these were touchstones of the BUSH presidency (or what meekly passed for it). They have nothing to do with Obama. I don't think he's said anything about all these issues one way or the other, and though I've given what I'm pretty sure was the Democratic line on them, I fail to see how they're going to mark Obama...?

    If you want to talk about what you percieve to be Obama's weakness in foreign policy, stick to that.
  • krongmankrongman - Posts: 78 Junior Member
    leibow your point about having friends who died on 9/11 doesn't make you any better at formulating foreign policy or dealing with the muslim world. sorry for your loss, but I still don't think it entitled America to attack Iraq, a country with no connection to terrorism or the events of 9/11, and unleash all the suffering that wars have brought and always will bring on the Iraqi (and our own) people. and for the record two kids who i was close to in high school lost their dad in the pentagon on 9/11, so I wasn't completely unaffected.

    i'm no idealist. i'm a pragmatist, and you should be too. i analyze things. and so, without further ado:

    "capital gains taxes, inheritance taxes, spending on welfare, etc. The middle class will get clobbered."

    Spending on welfare? As in Obama is going to increase or decrease spending on welfare? If he increases welfare spending, as I hope he does, I'm all for it. I've always believed society should help its less-fortunate members, and you, as a self-proclaimed member of the middle class, should too. I'm pretty sure he's not going to decrease welfare spending.

    Capital gains taxes? You mean the money that rich people make playing the stock market, which then gets taxed and benefits the state a little bit before it gets squirreled away into offshore bank accounts in the Bahamas or the Cayman Islands? Which Bush cut massively while we suffer the worst budget deficit in history? Oh yeah, those. I don't see anything about taxing money you, a member of the middle class, make from the stock market (which isn't REAL MONEY to begin with) and using it to pay for us to go overseas to play World Policemen (a role the rest of the world, somehow, doesn't want us to paly) and kill some brown/black/yellow/orange/purple people, which you seem to advocate when you talk about Iraq. Or, Heaven forbid, to support the poor; even though you tremble with rage at the mere mention of increasing welfare spending, I for one think it's a worthy cause, worthier perhaps than another half-cocked war.

    As for the inheritance tax? It never took EVERYTHING. The purpose of it is to prevent an ancestral American noble class from forming by prohibiting one generation of Gatsbys from passing on its massive wealth to the next. I for one see nothing wrong with that aim. God knows we have enough privilege in this country already. As for you, a self-proclaimed member of the middle class? Work harder at your job. Make real money. Don't play the lottery, don't gamble, don't expect a huge windfall of money from dead relatives (money you didn't legitimately earn through your own labor), and you'll be in good shape. The inheritance tax increases meritocracy in this country and I am all for that.

    Everything you've cited are examples of things which help wealthy people far, far more than the middle class. I fail to see, in fact, just how the "middle class" will get clobbered on all these issues. Furthermore, as I understand it, all these were touchstones of the BUSH presidency (or what meekly passed for it). They have nothing to do with Obama. I don't think he's said anything about all these issues one way or the other, and though I've given what I'm pretty sure was the Democratic line on them, I fail to see how they're going to mark Obama...?

    If you want to talk about what you percieve to be Obama's weakness in foreign policy, stick to that.
  • Leibow11Leibow11 Registered User Posts: 45 Junior Member
    Krongman, I have two questions for you. Not an attack, just a question. Are you paying for your own education? And what do you consider rich?

    I am not rich. I am middle class. And I don't "play" the stock market. I spend less than I make and invest in various companies which at times yields capital gains. I do this so I can give my family a good life and ensure I don't eat dog food in my retirement. I do not wish to end up on medicaid and if social security (which has been a mess for many, many years) is still around it will not be enough to live on. I'm not a martyr and I'm not special. I work 60 - 70 hour weeks in a job that I don't like because I have responsibilities. Your naivete is showing if you think that only the rich receive capital gains.

    As far as inheritance taxes. My father worked all his life, didn't spend on himself, and saved his money so he could leave a little to his children. What he saved was taxed at the time. Why should it be taxed again just because he didn't spend it all the day before he died.
  • krongmankrongman - Posts: 78 Junior Member
    Am I paying for my own education? Yes, partially. I work part-time at school and full-time over the summer. No, you're right, I'm not on foodstamps. I too grew up in a middle class household.

    "I spend less than I make" -- good, I'd think you would

    "Your naivete is showing if you think that only the rich receive capital gains."
    -- never said that, only that they benefit by far the most from them. i'm glad you make some money from them for your retirement. the money isn't free though; it makes sense that, in this little country of ours, a portion of the money you made goes to support the government.

    "As far as inheritance taxes. My father worked all his life, didn't spend on himself, and saved his money so he could leave a little to his children. What he saved was taxed at the time. Why should it be taxed again just because he didn't spend it all the day before he died."
    -- The federal estate tax is scaled proportionately. If you die and leave a $9000 estate (based on various definitions), the feds take 18%; if you die and leave a $99000 estate, the tax is $18,200 plus 28% of the excess over $80,000; if you die and leave a $9,999,999, the rate is $555,800 plus 45% of the excess over $1,500,000. I don't think that's bad as all. As you can see it's proportionately scaled so that the smaller the estate, the lower the rate, while the larger the estate, the larger the rate, up to way more than half at the $10 million level. I don't consider that unfair at all.

    Why, again, are you on CC.com telling your life story?
  • alansdaalansda Registered User Posts: 781 Member
  • sf606508sf606508 Registered User Posts: 131 Junior Member
    folks, this is a college forum. not a political one. get on with your lives.

    I am a McCain supporter; nonetheless, I am happy Mr. Obama spoke at Wesleyan commencement, as that increases the name recognition and thus future prospects of the institution.
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