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"Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

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Replies to: "Race" in College Applications FAQ & Discussion 12

  • collegemomjamcollegemomjam Registered User Posts: 1,010 Senior Member
    @theloniusmonk wrote:

    Affirmative Action was never intended to address income gaps, even though that has been a byproduct. However while income is probably a bigger issue now, colleges that use AA are not going to give admission to a poor Asian over a weatlhy African American.

    I'm not sure that is the case. You might be right, generally speaking at most schools, but I do wonder if a poor Asian (especially one from a less popular Asian country?) might get a shot over a wealthy African American at some of the truly need blind and more elite schools? I just feel like a school like Harvard might do the right thing in that situation. I would think they would at least be able to compare a poor Asian to a wealthy Asian? I really don't know and many people on this thread have more information on what happens behind closed doors than I do.

    Again, generally speaking I think you are right.
  • ELopez1275ELopez1275 Registered User Posts: 41 Junior Member
    People are going around in circles affirmative action was NOT meant for economic reasons or to correct all social ills. of society or the world.

    It was passed as part of the Civil Rights Act, and LBJ added gender stipulations to it, as a means to correct the US government's bias against African Americans. Not Cubans, not Egyptians. African Americans, people who went through slavery and segregation as a DIRECT result of the American government. What that has to do with Cuba or Copts or Nigerians?
  • ZinheadZinhead Registered User Posts: 2,473 Senior Member
    @ELopez1275 - So are you saying that Hispanics should not benefit from affirmative action?
  • collegemomjamcollegemomjam Registered User Posts: 1,010 Senior Member
    @ELopez you are probably technically right, but I think AA has become more than that in practice. I was on U of Maryland's website earlier today and they say on their website that they take socioeconomic status, race, and ethnicity into consideration in admissions decisions. They don't say "we follow what AA was exactly created for". So while maybe AA was not MEANT exactly the way schools execute it, I think the scope of it has become a lot more than African Americans. So maybe we can't call it AA technically anymore because of that, but I think AA has become the catchall. And from I can tell, other URM's benefit from AA, not just African Americans. If they didn't, I don't think we'd have some much activity on this thread.
  • CoolestAsianCoolestAsian Registered User Posts: 42 Junior Member
    I read the fist page of this thread and thought "okay it can't get more controversial then this"

    Boy was I wrong...
  • BooCockyBooCocky Registered User Posts: 2 New Member
    You should check all the boxes.
  • ElionnahomElionnahom Registered User Posts: 38 Junior Member
    Racially asian but an American. Just like African Americans.....Asian American.
  • ZinheadZinhead Registered User Posts: 2,473 Senior Member
    From USA Today:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/08/04/justice-dept-goes-after-affirmative-actions-institutional-racism-column/536160001/
    Who could have predicted that one of President Trump’s projects would be to root out institutional racism? Yet that’s the upshot of an internal memo which apparently launches a push to review university admissions policies for race-based discrimination. The memo is still not public but the Justice Department has said that, at least so far, the focus will be on one complaint filed by Asian-American groups against Harvard.
  • theloniusmonktheloniusmonk Registered User Posts: 750 Member
    I saw some of the coverage on the justice dept story but I'm not sure how serious it is, it's just a posting for lawyers. And it will start for white applicants facing discrimination and I do think it will also include Asians if it goes forward.
  • roethlisburgerroethlisburger Registered User Posts: 1,470 Senior Member
    edited August 6
  • theloniusmonktheloniusmonk Registered User Posts: 750 Member
    Apparently this case is a holdover from the Obama justice dept that was filed in 2014 by Asian American students against Harvard. So this is not something new initiated by the Trump justice dept.
  • Doct0rDoct0r Registered User Posts: 10 New Member
    Ironically I remember Alan Deshowitz's speech where he boldly proclaimed 50% of Harvard's professor's are Jewish. Would liberals or conservatives on either side of the aisle dare call for a ban on over-represented Jews without being slammed as racist or anti Semitic?

    I've been on CC for 7 years off and on, we have had many Muslim students of color, particularly Middle Easteners, and Pakistanis come and say 'hey I need to check the Asian box, this isn't fair, I don't have the same background or so and so African migrant has a background of an African prince and migrated here only 7 years ago and they are in a more advantaged position than me and getting anotheer crutch up' And now just imagine for those Muslim Middle Eastern students how bad things have gotten since then! The truth is if affirmative action were made to help groups, here is a prime case, like with Jews during WW2, that it doesn't- it is about privilege. Just look at my two alma maters UChicago and Harvard and you can see how provosts had to challenge ingrained institutions to even get non-white or non-Jewish students into the student body.

    I doubt whatever Trump's policy are will affect the rich and privileged, where they be WASP legacy admits or Jewish Americans. Keep in mind family wealth almost directly correlates with things like SAT scores. Merit will not be a replacement but a facade.

    Affirmative Action's time is up. At least in the form it's currently in. I would go as far as to say it's an injustice. I hold no love for Trump, but if he successfully and justly succeeds in this endeavor, I think you will see a huge swing in the Asian American vote for generations to come.
  • notigeringnotigering Registered User Posts: 105 Junior Member
    edited August 7
    Straw-man argument, there is NO ban on over-represented Asians. Harvard is trying its best to achieve black parity.percentage-wise with the general population and they are more or less matched at 1:1. Asians represent 4.7% of the US population but compose 22.2% of Harvard's admitted class or 5:1. Over-represented is the opposite of ban isn't it?

    So they are better qualified you will add I guess?. Who decides that?, you? Please tell me on which factors?

    There are many, many other hooks. Geographical location (they don't want to be regional or even national..), developmental cases, legacy, SPORTS, sex, etc... Why shouldn't race be one? It is not like the US was built on race blind policies or like black oppression was/is not real. Please explain to me why it has to be blind but only one way?
  • Doct0rDoct0r Registered User Posts: 10 New Member
    edited August 7
    There is no straw man. In fact you are using a straw man, to impose an argument which no one here really argued for. This has been discussed, and statistics sourced here, most of the 'blacks' at top schools are no longer even African Americans for whom Affirmative Action was made and tailored to 1, but extremely well off and educated African and Caribbean migrants and their children. More well off than even white groups.

    2. The point isn't so much that Asians or whites are over represented (according to their population in the US, which is irrelevant)but definitely not their population as far as application. The point is there are FAR more stringent requirements for them, and not other over represented groups like Ashkenazis aka white Jews. According to many statistics an Asian American must get 150 pts higher on the SAT, and has about 3 times less (1/4) the admission rate of the equivalent white applicant. Correct me if I'm wrong Lopez. Relativity is important here.

    Lastly I dare say there are far more deserving groups for affirmative action today. I think it would be illegal to give a religious preference, but many Muslim groups, almost all of whom seem colored, ethnicities should be considered, as well as many Central American groups (Cubans Venezuelans and other white Hispanic groups dominate top schools just like African migrants) in a Trump era. Giving affirmative action to minorities like Nigerians who never deserved it in the first place or Cubans, resulted in many communities which, ironically, as other posters pointed out, voted against those same Liberal values and actually are helping to get rid of the policy altogether.

    If you coddle demographics that are undeserving of a policy, it seems intuitive to me that such a policy would collapse eventually.
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