When comparing the music department between Yale and Princeton, which would you say is better and why? Also, which school would you say has better opportunities if a student is interested in things like musical theater, a cappella groups, improv, vocal lessons etc.?
Hands down – Yale. Yale undergrads’ access to top instructors is directly equal to the world renown Yale Music grad school. Theater and a cappella have their own (and very large) niche amongst the undergrads. Frankly none of the Ivies compares to the richness, depth and breadth of these than what Yale possesses. The amount of theater that goes on in New Haven is amazing – the link to NYC is historic and continues today. Many shows worked out their kinks in New Haven before going to NYC. And students can get very cheap tix to fantastic shows too – a great date night!
Evidently not in jazz.
Yale Students Campaign for All That Jazz
Michael Hoot and his compatriots value their hard-won seats in the Yale Jazz Ensemble, a Yale University-sponsored big band. So it did not sit well when Thomas C. Duffy, who as university director of bands had led the ensemble for 34 years, suspended its operations for the coming year — and possibly beyond — citing a loss of rehearsal space and a lack of qualified brass players.
Translating such numbers into course changes is another story. Mr. Dubovoy said his plans for the school year might include lobbying for a certificate in jazz studies, drawing on elements of the program at Princeton, where students qualify after completing four related courses, taking part in educational outreach and performing in one of the music department’s jazz groups.
But Yale does not offer classes in jazz performance. With the suspension of the jazz ensemble, it does not sponsor extracurricular jazz bands. Nor does it offer lessons for credit with practitioners of the jazz repertory, though qualified undergraduates can take lessons with classical musicians through the School of Music.
Do you know if Princeton offers as many classes in theater, a cappella, etc. as Yale does?
Most music lessons at Yale will be with grad students - at Princeton they’ll be with working musicians. Not to say Yale grad students aren’t good musicians, and, possibly teachers. It’s a rare Yale undergrad who gets to study with one of the School of Music professors. Princeton also offers a Performance certificate - Yale does not.
I think it depends on the instrument whether or not one is able to study with a School of Music professor or not. My S knew quite a few people who were able to study with professors instead of graduate students (himself included). However, those he knew who studied with grad students were very happy with their lessons as well.
My son was a music major at Yale, and his buddy with similar interests and backgrounds went to Princeton. I think both were very happy with the opportunities. I will say that Yale’s musical theater scene is pretty awesome, as is the a cappella scene. There are also multiple comedy improv groups.
While my son was at Yale he performed with the Yale Precision Marching Band, the Yale Concert Band, the Yale Jazz Ensemble (briefly), a funk band, a new-music ensemble, and pit orchestras for multiple shows. And a few other similar things. He had his music performed by several of those groups, as well as one of the student-run orchestras. He wrote incidental music for a couple of shows, and later wrote the music for a musical that was produced at Yale (entirely by students).
My daughter (who is not a music major) sings with the Glee Club, sang a couple of times with the Yale Jazz Ensemble, performed in a spoken-word poetry group, and wrote the book and lyrics for the same musical mentioned above. In addition to non-music related activities. (And she worries that she isn’t doing enough extracurriculars.)
And they aren’t really unusual. Lots going on at Yale. I think Princeton is pretty similar.
Yale has a 5 year BA/MM for music,
True, but my understanding is that very, very few students do this. It isn’t really encouraged much.
I will say that I don’t think Yale is necessarily the best place for somebody looking at a musical performance career. There is no performance track in the music major, and the environment isn’t really conducive to somebody who wants to spend most of his or her time focusing on practicing and performance. For composers (like my son), I think it’s really excellent, as well as for people interested in music theory, etc. For non-majors who are serious about music, it’s really terrific.
I studied 'cello with an internationally famous full professor while I was in high school. I would take a train down to New Haven from Boston several times a month and spend the day on campus for private lessons, ensemble, and master classes. It was mostly graduate students, but there were a few undergrads. I would think from this that there would be some flexibility depending on the seriousness and talent of the student.
@Hunt, I think it’s very difficult to go to a University of Yale’s caliber and maintain the kind of single handed focus that is necessary to develop in music performance to the same degree as one would at a conservatory. I went to Stanford, and my brother (violin) went to Harvard, both with the intention of keeping up our music performance, and we both found it quite difficult. There are places like Oberlin and Indiana University with strong performance departments, but they aren’t Yale from an academic perspective.
True, Yale doesn’t have a performance degree. But if there’s a will, there’s a way–with all the copious performance opportunities, first-rate theory and history classes and private lessons, one can cobble together something comparable to a performance major at other institutions. It is a lot of work–trying to balance practicing with Yale academics–but my S was able to find a balance, and he and quite a few friends of his went on to conservatories for grad school after Yale. So, one shouldn’t completely discount Yale if looking to a music performance career–it’s certainly doable.
Oberlin and Indiana both have music conservatories that are separate from their colleges. Their conservatories compete with Juilliard and Curtis, not Yale. The Oberlin conservatory is small enough that some excellent musicians in the college get lots of opportunities to play with the conservatory students, but you can’t get a performance degree from the liberal arts side of Oberlin.
Yale and Princeton, and Harvard and Stanford, are all awesome places full of talented students, and all of them provide outlets for their talents. It’s hard for me to believe that there’s anywhere academically comparable with more student music than Yale. It’s just everywhere, and massive numbers of students participate, according to their talent, interest, and available time.
Years ago, I went to graduate school at Stanford, and there was nothing there at the time remotely like the music culture at Yale, although of course there were any number of talented musicians. (My best friend there who was an undergraduate actually became a professional musician and composer.) I think there’s more music now, but the kind of deep culture Yale has doesn’t grow up overnight, or even overdecade.
Harvard has a long tradition of having superstar musicians as students – going back, at least, to Leonard Bernstein and Yo-Yo Ma. Not to mention Rivers Cuomo and Tom Morello. At Marlboro last summer (it’s a famous program that has young professional musicians playing chamber music with well-known faculty), we saw two or three current Harvard undergraduates perform, and a few years ago we saw Stefan Jackiw as a soloist with the Boston Symphony Orchestra not long after his Harvard graduation. One of my Yale classmates, Sharon Isbin, has had a pretty sensational career as a classical guitarist, but Yale has had fewer people like that than Harvard, I think.
I can’t imagine another top school without a conservatory that is better for musically inclined kids. We looked at many schools and Yale was my son’s top choice largely for its combination of great academics and huge support for the arts. Even the little things like the posters in the admissions office displayed various arts groups. And at Bulldog Days the musical ensembles were prominently spotlighted. It seemed like so many people my son met played an instrument, or sang, or danced, etc. He has only been there a few weeks, but has already auditioned for and joined both YSO and an acapella group. But it he had not made these groups, there are SO MANY others that he could have joined. I can’t compare apples to apples to another school since he attends Yale, but the arts just seem so engrained and celebrated there that it seems hard to match.
That said, if a student wants a traditional music performance degree program/experience, then Yale is not the right place.
We were advised that if a student is not going to be a music major, it is almost better to attend a school without a performance degree so you will have more opportunities in the top ensembles.
Princeton is also good in the arts, but it just seems more a part of life at Yale. Just my two cents as a mom of a happy musical freshman!
Yale has Kevin Olusola, beat boxer for Pentatonix. 
My D concluded before applying that Yale was the Ivy league school with the best music scene and she is loving her experience there.
@JHS, very cool that you were at Yale with Sharon Isbin.