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"Race" in College Admission FAQ & Discussion 10

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Replies to: "Race" in College Admission FAQ & Discussion 10

  • WhaleWhaleWhaleWhale Registered User Posts: 254 Junior Member
    1. If you grew up in a small town without black people, you are inevitably going to feel awkward around black people until you get used to living around them for a while.

    2. My point was that you don't really work together in high school, at least where I live.

    3. This doesn't really make sense. Of course you would still be racist after 4 years, but you would definitely be either more open minded than before or dead.

    I'm not contradicting myself at all. The reason the college experience shapes people's opinions is that students are exposed to people who are different from themselves.

    I'm not defending it because it's immutable. I'm defending it because if top colleges suddenly decided to remove the system, they would not be providing the best education possible to their students. They also risk ****ing off URMs as well.
  • tokenadulttokenadult Registered User Posts: 17,471
    Hat tip to StitchInTime for linking to the article that in turn links to the comprehensive University of Texas webpage gathering up all the documents related to the current case before the United States Supreme Court.

    VPLA | Fisher vs. Texas
  • PhilovitistPhilovitist Registered User Posts: 2,739 Senior Member
    Malcolm Gladwell, in this terrible terrible book called Blink, reports a not so terrible study that demonstrates that simply indicating that you are African American before taking a Standardized Test primes you to do more badly on that test.

    This pervading effect that simply being a URM can have seems to justify affirmative action for me.
  • terencterenc Registered User Posts: 1,128 Senior Member
    Obviously 98% was hyperbole. A few liberal arts colleges (like Middlebury) are very white, but no selective colleges are extremely skewed because they care about maintaining a race balance. If URMs have a tougher time getting into top colleges, fewer would apply, creating a positive feedback loop.
    Asians have a tougher time getting into top colleges. It is not the case that fewer apply. Thus that logic is not entirely accurate (if at all accurate). Everyone wants to get into top colleges.
    Colleges are obviously self-interested and they have no incentive to admit everyone who is most qualified. I never said that I completely agree with them, but colleges don't really have a choice.
    Wrong. Every college in America receives significant federal funding. Thus they are accountable to the public interest. Need I mention that forgoing federal funding would be devastating? The majority of research is funded by the government or government-sponsored agencies.
    Since you didn't grow up with parents who forced you to score a 2300+, you can't really understand what I mean. I did, and I'm friends with many Asians whose parents are even more crazy than mine (mine only cared about the SAT I).
    Anecdotal evidence is notoriously unreliable and holds no logical weight.


    closertothestars:
    For example, I'm the only Bangladeshi in my US Government class. I'm also the only Muslim. When we have discussions in the classroom, I find that I often have differing viewpoints than the rest of my classmates
    1) See above. 2) Ironically, this point only supports the argument against AA. A Bangladeshi is Asian, and is lumped in with South Asians. Despite the incredible diversity of Asians - Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Malaysian, Indian, Bangladeshi, Filipino, Cambodian, etc., they are all lumped in together as Asian and collectively placed at a disadvantage in admissions.
    But I am saying that two people whose parents are from different countries are MORE LIKELY to have differing viewpoints than two people whose parents were raised in the same country and in the same religion.
    See my point above.

    Philovitist:
    This pervading effect that simply being a URM can have seems to justify affirmative action for me.
    So what you're saying is that because URMs hold unconscious stereotypes about themselves that drag down their performance, colleges ought to give than preferential treatment? Heck, then what's next? Then because of unconscious stereotypes of being 2400 nerd types, Asians ought to be given preferential treatment in college athletics recruiting?
  • ShrinkrapShrinkrap Registered User Posts: 11,788 Senior Member
    CardinalEdu I think the title of your article is misleading. The SAT scores are only a few years old, but the data from the book he quotes is essentially the same old study from kids who graduated HS twenty years ago.

    " The book's analysis is based on data provided by the National Survey of College Experience, collected from more than nine thousand students who applied to one of ten selective colleges between the early 1980s and late 1990s.*"


    The original data also said that a very small percentage of black students takeing that test ( those scoring 1200 to 1300 I think ) got such bump, and that black students scoring higher or lower, were actually "penalized" more than other groups.
  • HelpChristianityHelpChristianity Registered User Posts: 77 Junior Member
    Common application:

    White (including Middle Eastern)

    I don't think Middle eastern can be classified in the white race along with Germans, Swedish or Dutch people. The arabs(middle eastern) and the people from europe are so different on skin and of course ideology. Europeans (including Bosnia, Russia and Est Europe) are white people(not so white like Swedish), but the people from Middle East are Arabs, and their color it is so different with eastern europe people. You can not say the people Pakistan are white, even Pakistan is from middle east. They are more like Hindus people instead white people from Europe.
  • Xwords59Xwords59 Registered User Posts: 164 Junior Member
    A recent article from the NY Times shows that there is not a material difference between enrollment percentages of white, black & hispanics in college:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/21/education/hispanics-college-enrollment-surges-report-finds.html?adxnnl=1&ref=education&adxnnlx=1345951708-GqCa8pc+NYqXDNZPJutoEA

    Is it time for colleges to forget about their URM preferences and quotas and let everyone be considered on the merits? Or should the URM preferences be changes to more of a socioeconmic one?
  • amarkovamarkov Registered User Posts: 2,288 Senior Member
    I don't know why you think that. 6 percentage points isn't a huge difference, but it's not trivial. (And those numbers include two year community college programs; I suspect the numbers would not look nearly so good for only four year programs.)
  • tokenadulttokenadult Registered User Posts: 17,471
    There has been some interesting research on interventions to overcome "stereotype threat."

    http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/amp-67-2-130.pdf
  • HelpChristianityHelpChristianity Registered User Posts: 77 Junior Member
    This just shows how you meaningless and arbitrary the categories are. Filipinos are not considered Hispanics or Latinos, despite that the Philippines was one of the last colonies Imperial Spain possessed. Whites who have Spanish ancestry (or even just Spanish parents) can call themselves Hispanic and thus receive preferential treatment, though there is nothing special about Spain compared to other European nations.

    I don't want to insult Philippines(I meet some people from Philippines and they are really cool! I know in Tagalog the word for ghost it is inherited from Spanish), but Syria was the last French colony, but they are not WHITE and you can see them on TV, killing each other like any other terrorists. Mali was a French colony and they are muslims and speak French but they are not White. If a country was colonized it doesn't say to much information about the race.

    However Philippines are more white than Middle Eastern are.
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