Waiting2exhale2903 replies14 postsRegistered UserSenior Member
Adam Semprevivo's claims of having no knowledge of the content of components of the application submitted on his behalf, and some inquiries and arguments here on either side of plausibility and attachment of fraud to the young Semprevivo, remind me of an old thread here of about two years ago where a kid was torn by his father's engineering of an application to the University of Pennsylvania. (Longest sentence ever, sorry about that.)
In the case of the young poster here, he said he had knowledge of his father's hands all over the application - one which the student would never have begun himself - but that his father falsified none of his activities, awards, accomplishments, grades, etc.
lookingforward33093 replies358 postsRegistered UserSenior Member
If a donor gives (legitimately) to a particular program, position, or goal, that's how the money needs be used. The signed documents likely include the caveat I keep mentioning. It's pretty de rigeur, these days. CYA. Dev Reps know to do it and donors agree. Multi-page legal documents.
Example. We had a large fund to support two related humanities majors, generally treated as same department, by most colleges. Then, the relationship was split into two depts. The U could not just decide on the split of funds. They had to go back to the donors for permission. (Older fund, without the caveat.)
If $ available for distribution cannot be applied as stated, it may just revert to the endowment, that year. But today, that would also e stated in the contract.
Don't get locked up on the fact of money. It has to be properly applied.
twoinanddone22407 replies14 postsRegistered UserSenior Member
A friend just posted a request to fund a scholarship to honor a colleague who died. It appears they need $25k in order for this to be an endowed scholarship. If they do not get the $25k, the funds already collected have to be returned.
There are all kinds of restrictions on use of donations.
Most schools lose a lot of money on athletics and have to use student fees to support. For public schools in a USA Today article using NCAA data, institutional funds (e.g. student fees) covered about $2.9B in athletic expenses, which was about 30% of the total. But some schools get nearly 90% of athletic budget from student fees. The average is skewed by big programs that don't depend on student fees (e.g. UT Austin). The median for publics was 63% of athletic budget coming from institutional funds. No other country that I know of does this. This drives up student debt.
Someone mentioned English departments "consuming" funds as if they are money losers. Many research universities are really using money from programs like English to cross-subsidize other areas like research and STEM.
College athletic budgets increased significantly after the advent of Title IX. Women's sports provided virtually no new revenue to the mix but nonetheless had to be funded. One thing about Title IX is that it not only mandated scholarship equity, it also mandated equity with respect to coaching staffs, facilities, and travel expenses. That is when some colleges started taxing their student bodies via imposition of involuntary student activity fees. Notwithstanding the foregoing, athletics are very important to colleges.
privatebanker5092 replies73 postsRegistered UserSenior Member
edited May 17
Ok she or he. Whatever works. Doesn’t change the lunacy of it all. Filling out an app can be a good amount of work. And with the portals and all that, you also had to set up fake accounts.
Majority of colleges do not require any personal essays, short essays and all this other nonsense. You are living in your Harvard bubble
I submitted my daughter's Common Application myself. That year CA was malfunctioning and I used a VPN at work to submit it from a European IP address (that worked better). I did not do any changes to the content although I could and nobody would know.
bluebayou26656 replies174 postsRegistered UserSenior Member
per the WSJ (paywall, sorry), Singer also recommended clients to claim URM status, or Singer (and staff?) even checked a URM box himself as he submitted the CA:
The man behind the scheme to help wealthy students get into elite colleges by cheating on tests and faking athletic credentials also advised some families to falsely claim students were racial minorities, exploiting the push to diversify campuses, according to two people familiar with the situation.
A son of Marjorie Klapper, a parent scheduled to plead guilty Friday for participating in the scheme, was incorrectly listed on his Common Application as being black and Hispanic, the people said. William “Rick” Singer...
Hanna14866 replies42 postsRegistered UserSenior Member
"Women's sports provided virtually no new revenue to the mix but nonetheless had to be funded."
No, they didn't have to be funded. They only had to be treated the same as men's sports. If a school decided that paying for two versions of the whole Division I dog and pony show was too expensive post Title IX, all they had to do was apply half the men's budget to women.
I know, I know. It's laughable, right? What university would expect men's sports to share?
Of course women's athletics had to be funded (as a matter of fact). Cutting men's sports in half would convert an FBS football program to an FCS one with a catastrophic drop in revenue (all FCS football teams are unprofitable). P5 athletic conferences all require participation in FBS football as a necessary condition for membership for all sports, men's and women's. For schools that are women-heavy in enrollment, the cut to men's programs would be yet proportionately heavier since school enrollment composition is a Title IX factor. Some schools approached this problem by cutting one or more men's sports. My alma mater eliminated men's swimming in addition to spending more money overall.
Some time ago I saw an article which detailed the Klapper warrant for arrest, along with a photo of Marjorie Klapper being escorted into or out of a court building. A second image related to the article, that of a Black kid pole vaulting, seemed so oddly placed, and I thought at the time, "who chose to use this badly placed stock image?"
twoinanddone22407 replies14 postsRegistered UserSenior Member
@twoinanddone The coach wrote personal essays and short essay prompts for your daughter? He wrote out all of her ecs and resume too?
Those weren't required. Although the school would accept the common ap, it wasn't required and if you used the common app you had to pay the fee, but if you used the school app, it was free. Daughter took a math placement test and wrote a (very) short essay after being admitted, mostly for placement into the right math class and the right English class.
The coach was new and was trying to get the athletes reviewed for admission (quick and dirty admissions evaluation) and considered for merit aid as quickly as possible. It wasn't fraud. The coach was hired in July, had a baby in August, and started recruiting in Sept after moving her family 1000 miles. She needed to recruit an entire women's team (~20) to a STEM school that was 75% male and she had to find girls who could play, wanted to go to a STEM school, and could afford it. We were there on a weekend and this schools admissions offices weren't open, so the coach had taken the transcript we'd sent, including the test scores, and got 'pre read' info from the AO. When we sat down with the coach, she was able to tell us that daughter would be admitted, that she'd receive $$$ in merit aid (auto based on gpa and scores), $ in two small grants, and that she could offer $$$ in athletic aid.
I don't know if the coach actually filled out an application but she got a file started in the admissions office, which we didn't know, so Daughter filled out an application online (free). The double file/double student number didn't even come to my attention until she went to register for second semester, 16 months after the double files were created. A lot of documentation kept going missing (high school transcripts, choice for meal plan, some financial aid) and whenever that happened they'd fix it and no one figured out the double files until I suggested it. We were getting double marketing material from this school all that year, but I had two kids headed to college and we got tons of mail so I didn't think anything of it (we got much more mail from WUSTL -like something every day). Daughter has a double first name and coach only used one name on the file. Now what is stupid is the school couldn't figure out that Mary Ann Smith is the same as Mary Smith and merge the files, but they didn't. But she did get accepted twice, once under the coach's file, once under her own application, two student numbers, but I didn't notice.
But all this is to say that not all athletes fill out the official application, don't do the essays and letters of rec, etc, as they aren't required by every school. My other daughter (non athlete) didn't need to do the recs or essays either. Not all schools require them.
twoinanddone22407 replies14 postsRegistered UserSenior Member
No, they didn't have to be funded. They only had to be treated the same as men's sports. If a school decided that paying for two versions of the whole Division I dog and pony show was too expensive post Title IX, all they had to do was apply half the men's budget to women.
Many school do have fewer men's varsity teams than women's because the men's teams are larger and cost more. It's quite common to see that a big D1 school has 10-11 men's teams (including the super large football team) and 13-14 women's teams. In the last few years, some have dropped men's track but kept the women's team. Men's swimming has also taken a hit. Six schools in the Pac-12 have women's lacrosse teams but only Utah (which doesn't have a women's team) has a men's team, and it was started and funded by a private donation. I bet Utah will add a women's team soon, to kept the equity, but the school will have to fund it.
I think Title IX has been wonderful for women's athletics. It is no way near equal, but it is a lot closer than it used to be.
lookingforward33093 replies358 postsRegistered UserSenior Member
Well, I think that reduced app requirement is not the case with Varsity Blues. In the sort of colleges that usually come under scrutiny, it's not the usual process.
twoinanddone22407 replies14 postsRegistered UserSenior Member
I really doubt the USC football recruits are sweating their recommendations or essays, or if they are part of their files at all. They know they are a sure thing. And I'll bet their applications go to the athletic department first and not submitted online directly to admissions. More than a handful of USC football players start in the spring of what would be their senior year of high school. They aren't submitting those applications on the regular schedule so someone is walking the applications through admissions.
Even the Ivy kids are getting pre-reads for acceptance and FA in July before the applications are submitted. Admissions is reviewing the applications without essays, recommendations, interviews, senior grades or awards.
Coloradomama2659 replies30 postsRegistered UserSenior Member
I don’t think any division 1 athletes write any essays or fill in the regular application. Football for ISC is a job with a contact. Students are payed for 11 months. It’s not the same as being a student, to play division 1 sports. Students have a contact to play so it’s more like being a professional athlete with a tutor who rarely goes to class. Many of these athletes go pro. It’s not about studying so the essay is not relevant for them. All that matters is how they play. This is true for all the Stanford athletes as well but they need to have ok grades but not as high as you would think. Our high school has watched a discus thrower, a volley ball player and a runner go to Stanford. All girls. None really spent any time studying except the volleyball player. They all sign contacts to play their sport as front and center for 11 months with Stanford. They get coached in rerun but whatever they do in s classroom is secondary. Their Apollo actions do not go through Stanford Admissions process. Many Stanford athletes get to stay at Stanford for five years of coaching and a “masters” degree, given how going pro works.
Replies to: Feds uncover admissions test cheating plot
In the case of the young poster here, he said he had knowledge of his father's hands all over the application - one which the student would never have begun himself - but that his father falsified none of his activities, awards, accomplishments, grades, etc.
CC was in a torrential buzz over that one.
Example. We had a large fund to support two related humanities majors, generally treated as same department, by most colleges. Then, the relationship was split into two depts. The U could not just decide on the split of funds. They had to go back to the donors for permission. (Older fund, without the caveat.)
If $ available for distribution cannot be applied as stated, it may just revert to the endowment, that year. But today, that would also e stated in the contract.
Don't get locked up on the fact of money. It has to be properly applied.
There are all kinds of restrictions on use of donations.
Someone mentioned English departments "consuming" funds as if they are money losers. Many research universities are really using money from programs like English to cross-subsidize other areas like research and STEM.
That is beyond belief. He should be fired for committing this fraud. Two student ids. It’s like identity theft.
Seems a bit hard to believe but certainly trust you on this as factual.
Quite a lot of work. And why did he do this exactly ? What did he tell you and what was the motivation. Some bonus or something?
It doesn’t make sense to me.
There’s a “pro” discus tour. Women and men’s tours?
Learn something new everyday.
Not sure I’m paying good money to see the LA Flying Saucers take on the Chicago Skeets anytime soon
I submitted my daughter's Common Application myself. That year CA was malfunctioning and I used a VPN at work to submit it from a European IP address (that worked better). I did not do any changes to the content although I could and nobody would know.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/students-were-advised-to-claim-to-be-minorities-in-college-admissions-scandal-11558171800?mod=hp_lead_pos1
No, they didn't have to be funded. They only had to be treated the same as men's sports. If a school decided that paying for two versions of the whole Division I dog and pony show was too expensive post Title IX, all they had to do was apply half the men's budget to women.
I know, I know. It's laughable, right? What university would expect men's sports to share?
Some time ago I saw an article which detailed the Klapper warrant for arrest, along with a photo of Marjorie Klapper being escorted into or out of a court building. A second image related to the article, that of a Black kid pole vaulting, seemed so oddly placed, and I thought at the time, "who chose to use this badly placed stock image?"
Unbelievable.
Those weren't required. Although the school would accept the common ap, it wasn't required and if you used the common app you had to pay the fee, but if you used the school app, it was free. Daughter took a math placement test and wrote a (very) short essay after being admitted, mostly for placement into the right math class and the right English class.
The coach was new and was trying to get the athletes reviewed for admission (quick and dirty admissions evaluation) and considered for merit aid as quickly as possible. It wasn't fraud. The coach was hired in July, had a baby in August, and started recruiting in Sept after moving her family 1000 miles. She needed to recruit an entire women's team (~20) to a STEM school that was 75% male and she had to find girls who could play, wanted to go to a STEM school, and could afford it. We were there on a weekend and this schools admissions offices weren't open, so the coach had taken the transcript we'd sent, including the test scores, and got 'pre read' info from the AO. When we sat down with the coach, she was able to tell us that daughter would be admitted, that she'd receive $$$ in merit aid (auto based on gpa and scores), $ in two small grants, and that she could offer $$$ in athletic aid.
I don't know if the coach actually filled out an application but she got a file started in the admissions office, which we didn't know, so Daughter filled out an application online (free). The double file/double student number didn't even come to my attention until she went to register for second semester, 16 months after the double files were created. A lot of documentation kept going missing (high school transcripts, choice for meal plan, some financial aid) and whenever that happened they'd fix it and no one figured out the double files until I suggested it. We were getting double marketing material from this school all that year, but I had two kids headed to college and we got tons of mail so I didn't think anything of it (we got much more mail from WUSTL -like something every day). Daughter has a double first name and coach only used one name on the file. Now what is stupid is the school couldn't figure out that Mary Ann Smith is the same as Mary Smith and merge the files, but they didn't. But she did get accepted twice, once under the coach's file, once under her own application, two student numbers, but I didn't notice.
But all this is to say that not all athletes fill out the official application, don't do the essays and letters of rec, etc, as they aren't required by every school. My other daughter (non athlete) didn't need to do the recs or essays either. Not all schools require them.
Many school do have fewer men's varsity teams than women's because the men's teams are larger and cost more. It's quite common to see that a big D1 school has 10-11 men's teams (including the super large football team) and 13-14 women's teams. In the last few years, some have dropped men's track but kept the women's team. Men's swimming has also taken a hit. Six schools in the Pac-12 have women's lacrosse teams but only Utah (which doesn't have a women's team) has a men's team, and it was started and funded by a private donation. I bet Utah will add a women's team soon, to kept the equity, but the school will have to fund it.
I think Title IX has been wonderful for women's athletics. It is no way near equal, but it is a lot closer than it used to be.
Even the Ivy kids are getting pre-reads for acceptance and FA in July before the applications are submitted. Admissions is reviewing the applications without essays, recommendations, interviews, senior grades or awards.