No I did not miss the point. I am pointing out that UT Austin is a great school in its own right, despite being your Val's second or fifteenth choice. Many high achievers CHOOSE to go there.
Two years ago someone from our local high school went there, ignoring a Harvard admission.
I agree. I have never said that UT-Austin isn't a good school. Like I mentioned, its business and engineering programs are among the best in the nation. The city is a wonderful cultural center, full of live entertainment and quirky events. I personally know people with fantastic stats who are also choosing to attend, forgoing all other options, and I have no doubt that they will love it there.
On the other hand, UT-Austin being a Texan student's backup school should not be surprising, nor cause for imagined slights against its quality of education. It has automatic admission for the top 7% of the Class of 2014, so naturally, many top-achieving students will take advantage of that safety net while pursuing "reach" schools elsewhere. Our valedictorian happened to believe that her stats qualified her for an Ivy, which isn't wrong, but she didn't thumb her nose at UT when it became her only offer of admission. I might add that she's now flourishing there, and is close to receiving a degree in aerospace engineering.
As for a student turning down Harvard for UT, it's not the first time a situation like that has arisen. It's rare, yes, but it happens, and it's a respectable choice.
1. This really shouldnt be on the Cornell thread unless Cornell is the college in question.
2. Dont rely on URM status to get you into anywhere you want. It can only do so much in terms of making up for lackluster numbers and will only make you look racially entitled. (I would know since I am Biracial URM)
3. Don't worry what other black applicants are getting, worry about bolstering your own application to appeal to the school you want to attend most.
Your anecdote actually does provide a trend. The only people who got into top schools / ivies are the URMs (Asians and Indians are ORMs for top schools). Obviously from their scores they're also too students and I believe they could have gotten in without the URM status but it is still silly to say that it doesn't play any role in admissions.
"As for a student turning down Harvard for UT, it's not the first time a situation like that has arisen. It's rare, yes, but it happens, and it's a respectable choice. "
There are many who go to UT as premeds too because their parents refuse to spend the money for top schools when they have to continue spending money for med school. Texas residency provides people with one of the best choices for medical school admissions and many who go to top schools return home for medical school. So if there is an admission to a top 20 school but no money to go with it, many parents simply choose not to pay for it. Texas medical schools are filled with Ivy educated Texas residents.
@william95: I didn't say that race doesn't play a role in admissions. It's rather obvious that it does. I said (or thought I said) that I think it's silly to depend on URM status to compensate for a low GPA, SAT, and/or a lack of extracurricular activities. There are many ORMs with good but not outstanding stats who are admitted to the top universities, and URMs with fantastic stats who are denied to the same universities. That's what I attempted to show with my anecdotes.
@texaspg: I guess I'll have to take your word that "many" Texas students turn down the top-tier schools for UT, since I don't have the evidence to say otherwise. All I can tell you is that, where I'm from, it's quite uncommon. Many students from my area are recipients of financial assistance. The Ivies, at least, promise to meet 100% of demonstrated need, so most of the time, admitted students without the means to pay are covered, even if they need to take a work-study on campus to contribute to tuition.
I know of a private high school in Texas where 80% to 90% of students have family incomes above $300,000 a year. I mention that amount because that is the amount that ensures they get zero financial aid without unusual and rare circumstances.
So, many of its grads are accepted at Cornell, Harvard, Duke or Stanford but enroll at Texas.
The parent's cut the cost of college by $30,000 per year, most will be sending two or three kids to college. For three kids, the savings are half a million dollars.
But, on truth serum, many of the parents think Texas is as good or better than Cornell, Duke or Stanford. Many Texans have never worked or lived outside of Texas. Everyone in Texas respects a Texas degree. Most Texans have not heard of Cornell because Cornell.
I understand Texas pride, but hearing someone turned down Cornell to go to Texas makes me sad. Part of college is meeting diverse people and Cornell may have America's most diverse students. Every state, every major nation, students from Paris, France and from Paris, Texas.
Going back to the original question, it is important to understand the limited role of statistical data in admissions.
"The Gate Keepers" by Steinberg documented that role: stats help predict if this person be successful in college. Took only tough courses. Took the toughest courses offered. Got A's and a few B's. Has an 1800+ SAT.
That person MIGHT be a success. Will they make a real impact on the college and on society? For that, you need to know their biography as set out in their essays, in letters from teachers, letters from people in the community.
When Bill Clinton was 17, people were writing letters to Georgetown saying "This student will be the reason every American will someday know of Hope, Arkansas."
So, stats are like the fire department rule about height. After you show that you have the height, you have to prove you have the important stuff.
So, there are Anglo, Asian, Hispanic and Black students who were admitted with 1800 SAT scores and a 3.4 GPA. But that was just the height requirement. They each presented convincing evidence that in 20 or 30 years, they were going to have made a major mark in the world.
Replies to: Statistics for Black Ivy League applicants?
No I did not miss the point. I am pointing out that UT Austin is a great school in its own right, despite being your Val's second or fifteenth choice. Many high achievers CHOOSE to go there.
Two years ago someone from our local high school went there, ignoring a Harvard admission.
On the other hand, UT-Austin being a Texan student's backup school should not be surprising, nor cause for imagined slights against its quality of education. It has automatic admission for the top 7% of the Class of 2014, so naturally, many top-achieving students will take advantage of that safety net while pursuing "reach" schools elsewhere. Our valedictorian happened to believe that her stats qualified her for an Ivy, which isn't wrong, but she didn't thumb her nose at UT when it became her only offer of admission. I might add that she's now flourishing there, and is close to receiving a degree in aerospace engineering.
As for a student turning down Harvard for UT, it's not the first time a situation like that has arisen. It's rare, yes, but it happens, and it's a respectable choice.
1. This really shouldnt be on the Cornell thread unless Cornell is the college in question.
2. Dont rely on URM status to get you into anywhere you want. It can only do so much in terms of making up for lackluster numbers and will only make you look racially entitled. (I would know since I am Biracial URM)
3. Don't worry what other black applicants are getting, worry about bolstering your own application to appeal to the school you want to attend most.
Just my own 2 cents on the matter.
Your anecdote actually does provide a trend. The only people who got into top schools / ivies are the URMs (Asians and Indians are ORMs for top schools). Obviously from their scores they're also too students and I believe they could have gotten in without the URM status but it is still silly to say that it doesn't play any role in admissions.
There are many who go to UT as premeds too because their parents refuse to spend the money for top schools when they have to continue spending money for med school. Texas residency provides people with one of the best choices for medical school admissions and many who go to top schools return home for medical school. So if there is an admission to a top 20 school but no money to go with it, many parents simply choose not to pay for it. Texas medical schools are filled with Ivy educated Texas residents.
@texaspg: I guess I'll have to take your word that "many" Texas students turn down the top-tier schools for UT, since I don't have the evidence to say otherwise. All I can tell you is that, where I'm from, it's quite uncommon. Many students from my area are recipients of financial assistance. The Ivies, at least, promise to meet 100% of demonstrated need, so most of the time, admitted students without the means to pay are covered, even if they need to take a work-study on campus to contribute to tuition.
So, many of its grads are accepted at Cornell, Harvard, Duke or Stanford but enroll at Texas.
The parent's cut the cost of college by $30,000 per year, most will be sending two or three kids to college. For three kids, the savings are half a million dollars.
But, on truth serum, many of the parents think Texas is as good or better than Cornell, Duke or Stanford. Many Texans have never worked or lived outside of Texas. Everyone in Texas respects a Texas degree. Most Texans have not heard of Cornell because Cornell.
I understand Texas pride, but hearing someone turned down Cornell to go to Texas makes me sad. Part of college is meeting diverse people and Cornell may have America's most diverse students. Every state, every major nation, students from Paris, France and from Paris, Texas.
"The Gate Keepers" by Steinberg documented that role: stats help predict if this person be successful in college. Took only tough courses. Took the toughest courses offered. Got A's and a few B's. Has an 1800+ SAT.
That person MIGHT be a success. Will they make a real impact on the college and on society? For that, you need to know their biography as set out in their essays, in letters from teachers, letters from people in the community.
When Bill Clinton was 17, people were writing letters to Georgetown saying "This student will be the reason every American will someday know of Hope, Arkansas."
So, stats are like the fire department rule about height. After you show that you have the height, you have to prove you have the important stuff.
So, there are Anglo, Asian, Hispanic and Black students who were admitted with 1800 SAT scores and a 3.4 GPA. But that was just the height requirement. They each presented convincing evidence that in 20 or 30 years, they were going to have made a major mark in the world.