@william95: I didn't say that race doesn't play a role in admissions. It's rather obvious that it does. I said (or thought I said) that I think it's silly to depend on URM status to compensate for a low GPA, SAT, and/or a lack of extracurricular activities. There are many ORMs with good but not outstanding stats who are admitted to the top universities, and URMs with fantastic stats who are denied to the same universities. That's what I attempted to show with my anecdotes.
@texaspg: I guess I'll have to take your word that "many" Texas students turn down the top-tier schools for UT, since I don't have the evidence to say otherwise. All I can tell you is that, where I'm from, it's quite uncommon. Many students from my area are recipients of financial assistance. The Ivies, at least, promise to meet 100% of demonstrated need, so most of the time, admitted students without the means to pay are covered, even if they need to take a work-study on campus to contribute to tuition.
I know of a private high school in Texas where 80% to 90% of students have family incomes above $300,000 a year. I mention that amount because that is the amount that ensures they get zero financial aid without unusual and rare circumstances.
So, many of its grads are accepted at Cornell, Harvard, Duke or Stanford but enroll at Texas.
The parent's cut the cost of college by $30,000 per year, most will be sending two or three kids to college. For three kids, the savings are half a million dollars.
But, on truth serum, many of the parents think Texas is as good or better than Cornell, Duke or Stanford. Many Texans have never worked or lived outside of Texas. Everyone in Texas respects a Texas degree. Most Texans have not heard of Cornell because Cornell.
I understand Texas pride, but hearing someone turned down Cornell to go to Texas makes me sad. Part of college is meeting diverse people and Cornell may have America's most diverse students. Every state, every major nation, students from Paris, France and from Paris, Texas.
Going back to the original question, it is important to understand the limited role of statistical data in admissions.
"The Gate Keepers" by Steinberg documented that role: stats help predict if this person be successful in college. Took only tough courses. Took the toughest courses offered. Got A's and a few B's. Has an 1800+ SAT.
That person MIGHT be a success. Will they make a real impact on the college and on society? For that, you need to know their biography as set out in their essays, in letters from teachers, letters from people in the community.
When Bill Clinton was 17, people were writing letters to Georgetown saying "This student will be the reason every American will someday know of Hope, Arkansas."
So, stats are like the fire department rule about height. After you show that you have the height, you have to prove you have the important stuff.
So, there are Anglo, Asian, Hispanic and Black students who were admitted with 1800 SAT scores and a 3.4 GPA. But that was just the height requirement. They each presented convincing evidence that in 20 or 30 years, they were going to have made a major mark in the world.
Replies to: Statistics for Black Ivy League applicants?
@texaspg: I guess I'll have to take your word that "many" Texas students turn down the top-tier schools for UT, since I don't have the evidence to say otherwise. All I can tell you is that, where I'm from, it's quite uncommon. Many students from my area are recipients of financial assistance. The Ivies, at least, promise to meet 100% of demonstrated need, so most of the time, admitted students without the means to pay are covered, even if they need to take a work-study on campus to contribute to tuition.
So, many of its grads are accepted at Cornell, Harvard, Duke or Stanford but enroll at Texas.
The parent's cut the cost of college by $30,000 per year, most will be sending two or three kids to college. For three kids, the savings are half a million dollars.
But, on truth serum, many of the parents think Texas is as good or better than Cornell, Duke or Stanford. Many Texans have never worked or lived outside of Texas. Everyone in Texas respects a Texas degree. Most Texans have not heard of Cornell because Cornell.
I understand Texas pride, but hearing someone turned down Cornell to go to Texas makes me sad. Part of college is meeting diverse people and Cornell may have America's most diverse students. Every state, every major nation, students from Paris, France and from Paris, Texas.
"The Gate Keepers" by Steinberg documented that role: stats help predict if this person be successful in college. Took only tough courses. Took the toughest courses offered. Got A's and a few B's. Has an 1800+ SAT.
That person MIGHT be a success. Will they make a real impact on the college and on society? For that, you need to know their biography as set out in their essays, in letters from teachers, letters from people in the community.
When Bill Clinton was 17, people were writing letters to Georgetown saying "This student will be the reason every American will someday know of Hope, Arkansas."
So, stats are like the fire department rule about height. After you show that you have the height, you have to prove you have the important stuff.
So, there are Anglo, Asian, Hispanic and Black students who were admitted with 1800 SAT scores and a 3.4 GPA. But that was just the height requirement. They each presented convincing evidence that in 20 or 30 years, they were going to have made a major mark in the world.