College Confidential stands united with African American students and their families against racial injustice and in pursuit of higher education and equality in America.
GUEST STUDENT OF THE WEEK: Zai Dawodu overcame a low GPA to get into top schools like Northwestern or NYU. She'll be attending Northwestern to study Computer Science. ASK HER ANYTHING!
Make sure to check out our June Checklists for HS Juniors and HS Seniors. Consult these quick resources to get you started on the process this month.
As we work to adjust to the current reality, make sure to check out these dedicated COVID-19 resources: our directory of virtual campus tours, our directory of extended deadlines, as well as the list of schools going test optional this fall.
Math Placement Test Without a Calculator?
toledo
4861 replies290 threads Senior Member
Even though she got a 22 on her ACT math, D just failed a placement test because they wouldn't allow calculators. Doing math in your head or on scratch paper is ideal, but is it really expected of students in this day and age? Failing the placement test means she has to take a remedial math class.
79 repliesPost edited by toledo on
This discussion has been closed.
Replies to: Math Placement Test Without a Calculator?
> students in this day and age?
I think that it should be.
When I read a news story or a financial report or a research paper, I mentally make calculations in the background as to whether the numbers are reasonable as people that write news articles make errors in calculations. When someone tells you something that seems unreasonable, do you go through the calculations in your head? If your calculator gives you an answer, do you verify that the answer is reasonable?
And why would her parents object? One way or another, you are paying in sweat and treasure for her to get a college education. Don't you want to defer to the judgment of the professionals about what she has to do to get the most out of college? Wouldn't you prefer that she actually learn fundamental math solidly once and for all than that she struggle in a class where doing well may be beyond her knowledge base?
S2 said he could have done much better if he had also had a better calculator.
In S2's case, it didn't really matter since at his school, there is only one math required for humanity/non-techy majors (which he is) and it doesn't not require a certain score level on the placment test. The only reason he had to take the test was to have a score available if he decided at some point to change majors to one that required more math.
I was not a good math student either and had to take remedial math as a freshman.
It really wasn't that bad and helped me a lot (poor h.s. math background) in the long run since I was a nursing major.
The average ACT math score in the US is a 21. Also, this is a state school, and D isn't a math major. We didn't plan on an extra class.
I don't see what difference being at a state school makes, and it's obvious she isn't a math major, and probably won't ever be one. The kind of responsible job you hope your college-graduate daughter gets requires a level of basic mathematical problem-solving ability that she may not have command over yet. If you want her college degree to represent a real certification of knowledge and competence, you want her to take the math they think she needs to take.
After your D takes the remedial class, which math course(s) will she be taking to fulfill her math requirements?
As an early childhood ed. major, she needs to take Calc I (4 credits) OR Intro to Statistics (3 credits) AND Discrete Probability (3 credits). So if she wants to avoid calculus, it means taking a third math class.
I just looked up the actual square root and it is 9.7467, pretty darn close to the estimate above.
Worst case if the above approach with ratios wasn't known: just square all five answers on the four-function calculator and see which comes closest.
Since H and I are both statisticians and know she has a good head for math, we are chagrined about this...
I was pretty disappointed with the changes in math texts in the late 1990s - I call it the rainforest math approach. I think that there are benefits from traditional math and newer approaches and that school districts should try to use the best from both approaches. That doesn't necessarily sell textbooks though. In my school district, two out of three elementary schools supplement the state-standards textbooks with traditional math (the standards were written such that one textbook publisher basically has a lock on textbook sales). This is done by the teachers voluntarily as it isn't in the state standards nor in the district requirements. The other school doesn't. Guess which schools parents complain about.
It is in my math class. Even in classes for which I expect students to use calculators heavily, I expect them not to use calculators for basic computation. It's pointless to make students multiply two four-digit numbers by hand if they can already do it, or divide 3.51*10^5 by 4.3*10^(-9) manually if they can already do it, but if they can't already do it, they haven't achieved a basic level of math proficiency that we expect of high school graduates. And I certainly expect that my students will not reach for a calculator to multiply 17 by 5, or approximate pi/2, let alone the square root of 95.
Calculators are fabulous labor-saving tools. But a student who can't do arithmetic or basic algebra without one really does need remedial math. If her high school graduated her without these skills, it did her a disservice. But I don't think that means her college should just pass her along that way.
In your situation, I'd be annoyed and disappointed and frustrated, too. But I don't think the college is really the right entity for you to be ticked off at.
No one would ever mistake me for a math wiz and I used the same concept as BC. I knew that 9*9 =81 and 10*10 =100 since 100-95 =5, I would have also chosen the largest number over 9 and under 10.
My daughter also went to a school that did Marily Burns Math for smarty pants and knew how to do all sorts of abstract word problems but struggled doing basic arithmetic in her head. Yes, I whipped out my index cards and that is how she learned multiplication.
I agree with Garland about the over reliance on calculators. Kids with high tech calculators simply program formulas in their calculators and then plug and chug without really knowing how to do the work pen to the paper.
> think the college is really the right entity for you to be ticked off at.
Schools have 12 years to teach at least arithmetic and algebra. That is a very, very long time. If the schools aren't doing their jobs, then parents have to step in to fill the void. The problem is that parents often don't know that there is a problem.
I recall the survey results in grad school on how to improve courses. The biggest complaint was on students that didn't have the prerequisites for the course eating up valuable course time. How can a college professor teach the required material if a lot of course time is spent doing prerequisites?
In this case, the placement tests are fair to everyone. The professor can teach the course. Students in the course aren't held back by students that won't succeed in the course. Students that have to take remedial courses will be prepared for the course after they can demonstrate that they can meet the prerequisites.
At some level, the test should be designed to evaluate knowledge of the math concepts, not entirely the ability to perform arithmetic and estimation.
For example, I think it would be far more effective use of time to have several questions along the line of "What is ln(e^6.37)", rather than questions like "Estimate the number closest to e^6.37". In the case of the latter question, depending on the answer choices given, you would merely have to narrow it down and guess.