COMING SOON "Ask The Expert" live event w/ the CC Dean, Sally Rubenstone, on Feb. 22 at 12:00 pm ET. This event is exclusively for registered members. CREATE YOUR CC ACCOUNT NOW to receive event updates!
Investment Banking: Losing its Luster?
This discussion has been closed.
Replies to: Investment Banking: Losing its Luster?
Wall Street?s Bulge Bracket May Shrink to 5 Firms, McKinsey Says - Bloomberg
Please explain how recent layoffs equates to financial stability and quick payoff.
Logic would tell you that if you work in a volatile sector, stability is not present.
I really wonder why anyone would want to pursue this line of work. What's the appeal of working 60+ hours a week in an extremely high cost of living area?
Basically, how is that better than a government employee making 100-150k/year in a low cost metro area (if in Philly, that's equal to 200-300k/year in NYC), stacking two government retirements, and being able to retire before age 50?
I know you are in the military. But please explain how many (or what level) gov't employees in Philly are paid $100-150K a year and can stack 2 retirements and be able to retire before age 50. Our best friend went to West Point, became a lawyer, retired as a colonel after 30 years at age 50 at 75% of base pay. He taught at NIH for 15 more years and is retiring this year at age 65. I don't think he makes anything near $150K/year.
Salary Table 2012-PHL_LEO
A GS-14 or GS-15 in Philly will make approximately 100-150k/year depending on Step. FLEO careers allow to you retire at 25 years of service. In a larger FLEO agency, the only reason you don't make GS-14 or GS-15 is if you are completely incompetent and refuse to move when given an opportunity of a promotion.
As for your reserve commitment, if you were smart and enlisted (and then commissioned later on) when you were approximately 18, you could punch out at right before 50 with approximately 30 years of service. Although you would be eligible to retire at age 38. The 100-150k/year figure doesn't even include the > $15k/year you would receive as a drilling reservist. I receive approximately $15k/year as a 1LT; it starts to really shoot up once you make CPT and above.
Even if you were not ambitious and only achieved rank that any person with a heart beat would have made, then your combined retirement would still be > 120k/year at age 50.
Are you saying these are law officers?
Many federal agencies are moving to a "Pay Band" system instead of the GS pay scale. It allows more flexibility and higher ceilings. However, promotions are less guaranteed under the system. It's the effect of a drive for "pay for performance".
For example, without the LEAP pay that FLEOs would get, a GS-9 at the NSA would be making peanuts compared to what the same person would make at a defense contractor that does the same work at the same site. The "Pay Band" system was designed to allow those agencies to better compete with the private sector.
The problem I see with most literature regarding "expected salaries for career field/position" is that they never take into account opportunity costs.
Investment banking with 60+ hours a week represents a huge opportunity cost. You are giving up a lot of diversification and putting all your eggs in one basket in hopes that you excel over the person standing next to you who is equally talented and motivated.
Well, although Philly is a great city, it is not NYC. And although some government jobs are better than others, maybe the IB and S&T jobs are just more exciting and risky and a whole lot less boring.
There is more to a job than the wages.
Philly and other less populated metro areas aren't NYC; that's why they are more attractive. I grew up 35 mins away from NYC.
Many government jobs are boring and mundane, but those aren't the ones I would ever settle for. IB and S&T is less exciting, less risky, and a whole lot more boring that what I do (and want to continue to do or pursue in the future).
Being an Asian male and serving in a capacity/branch such as an Infantry platoon leader is risky. Serving in a region (South Jersey) where Asians are under-represented in a branch (Infantry) where, again, Asians are under-represented and excelling is unusual. Competing and succeeding in being selected over your peers for coveted specialty assignments such as Scout Sniper Platoon Leader is uncommon. Being recognized by your elected officials such as your Congressman to the point where they call your cell phone once in a while to see how your civilian career and military career are progressing as if they are eyeing (and betting on) you for a political future is rare.
I can assure you that my appetite for risk is far greater than the typical IB and S&T candidate. I'm willing to bet my life on the quality of the people around me, my own competence, experience, and skill. Can they?
The last thing I ever want to be in life is a conformist. I see so many of my Asian peers follow in the foot-steps of some type of generic life template. Many go to med school and others end up working on Wall Street (for a few years), and while they may have achieved great personal and economic success in their endeavors, that's all they've done. They simply didn't have a greater purpose - their lives are passively boring.
I want to be a trailblazer. I want to go where no others have gone before. Maybe I'm that @sshole with a chip on my shoulder and I'm out to prove something. So be it.
Now to bring the discussion back after being slightly off tangent, yes, a career is more than simply wages. But if you're being paid better to do something you ACTUALLY love and don't view as some type of grind, then you found what most people never will.
* As a side note, I'm currently a software engineer at a defense contractor. I went to a public school and majored in Computer Science. I joined the ARNG during that time and that allowed me to graduate with zero debt without even using my federal educational benefits. I'm doing better financially than all my peers from high school that ended up going to big-name schools and working on Wall Street. Debt and cost of living just destroys them even if they can find a well paying job in the financial sector.
We would all like to believe we are invincible. It's really not that much different than when you are rotating out of a forward operating base and you're mentoring the incoming unit during this transitional period. Then a few days after you leave, you hear that they took casualties on a patrol. There will always be a few d*p****s that try to come up with the "whys" and "hows"; they will believe that they were somehow more better than the other unit because they did so-and-so better or they came from wherever. No. You were lucky, they weren't. Sometimes, it's as simple as that.
My son and morrismom's D who work in the industry say no.
Working in high finance is very stressful, time consuming and highly competitive. Many people get out after a few years because the industry is "up or out" unlike government employees where it is virtually impossible to fire anyone.Many of my son's friends who work in banking want to get out because cash bonuses are capped and stock bonuses are deferred.Many want to go into buy-side finance where my son is because bonuses are not capped.
I can see my son getting out of hedge fund in 15 years and into asset management or own a taco stand on a southern CA beach because he wants more leisure time.
In the "many applicants" for a low paying job.....this must be a joke. For example, San Diego state received 70K applicants and Harvard had 34K. It must mean that SD state is such a better school.
An entire generation of ibankers.... gone.
Their support staff.... gone.
Their researchers.... gone.
Feel free to share your thoughts about it.
Hope to hear any updates.